White's fusion?

[lv2dive]

@katepnatl: I'm going to assume that you are in a horizontal position at depth when experiencing air-trapping in the feet. If that's the case, try straightening your legs out and/or breaking trim to squeeze the air out of your feet...then return to a horizontal position with knees bent.

Yes, in a horizontal position/in trim. And your suggestion - appreciated - is exactly what I do. My complaint is that the air tends to get caught in my feet - causing me to *need* to do that - much more often in the Fusion than the TLS. As I said, I'm a newer drysuit diver, so I'm sure that has something to do with it, but if the difference is noticeable between the two suits, I'm thinking it is not all related to technique.

One other point of note... I am rather short(5'5) and I do end up with a lot of the plastic material ending up bunching up around my calves (even after I pull it up). I've spoken with other Fusion users and we aren't al of the same opinion, but I'm thinking that this extra material may impact the air trapping.

Again - this is just my experience. YMMV.

 

[laurin]

If the issues are so compelling, you should go into them here.

I'd be interested in the issues too, having passed both C2 and T2 in a Fusion. Sure, it's a bit slow to dry with the tech skin, the pockets are not optimal, it's goofy looking and slightly slower to put on and take off, but that's all just really minor issues, and don't really affect diving at all. And underwater is where the suit really shines.

I don't get the air bubble thing - you don't see the air bubble because there isn't one. Which is a good thing, right?

I do own two other suits, one of them a DUI, I use them as backups and sometimes when cramming all the undies needed for proper arctic diving into the Fusion just feels too much of a bother.

IMO the "DIR" suit choice is one of the places where people tend to rationalize simple fashion. The red/black cave-cut TLS is a nice-looking suit with many of the features that make a suit a good, but it's not the only one out there. If the suit fits well, doesn't restrict movement, doesn't trap gas and allows easy dumping, it's already a winner. The rest is simply juggling between variables such as price/durability/color options/ease of DIY repairs etc. Even the zipper placement is personal preference.

This is one issue where I tend to get a bit vocal, since I deal with a lot of university students with a limited budget getting into diving in a country where a drysuit is almost necessity - so people around me generally know how to shop for a good suit, and even if it's unintentional, a "warm-water" GUE instructor is not really going to get taken very seriously if they give the impression that a loaded-with-options, signature series DUI TLS350 is the only way to go.

Btw, the Fusion tech skin pockets do work for me, they're just not quite as good as they could be - I can cram all the stuff I need in them and use them, even with dry gloves, it's just not always pretty. I've seen Halcyon Exploration pockets installed on a tech skin, so if I felt the pockets were a big issue, I'd simply do that. Which is pretty much what people do to TLSes, anyway.

//LN

 

[50Fathom]

If the issues are so compelling, you should go into them here.

Well, he mentioned the fact that "normal" trilams are easier to doff and don for some people, but as mentioned here, that is quite individual, as some report issues and others have no problems.

There is the issue about the design being "Rockboot only", where Rockboots are not compliant, and I would say more of a pet peeve of that instructor than the Fusion suit. I have Rockboots with my suit, but they are getting changed over to Turbosoles soon.

Not having good built-in pockets and requiring a set of overshorts, which are kind of like the rockboots, if you forget them, you're hosed, along with sagging or shifting with a heavy load.

These are minor quibbles and nit-picks, but the big one was the bubble management issue. It's not so much that the instructor can't see the bubble, it's that the user can't feel it as easily and because of the "all over squeeze", has a more difficult time placing it in exactly the place they want/need it. It can be mastered, but the learning curve is steeper than a "normal" suit. He mentioned a guy he dives with who owned a Fusion and dove it a lot, and the guy looked OK in the water with no issues, then one day they guy had to dive a borrowed TLS for some reason and he came out, "I can't believe that suit, it's like cheating, how easy it was to manage the bubble". Anecdotal and a single incident, but illustrative of his point.

Now Fusion users here report no such issue, so much like the course, I'll defer to their experience.

I actually think the Fusion is an OK suit and I came THIS close to getting one, but a lack of local dealers pushed me toward the DUI.

 

[Kern]

, but a lack of local dealers pushed me toward the DUI.

This makes perfect sense. I never recommend the Fusion to anyone here due to the lack of local backup.

I had no idea rock boots weren't GUE compliant.

The rest just sounds like FUD.

 

[HenrikBP]

He mentioned a guy he dives with who owned a Fusion and dove it a lot, and the guy looked OK in the water with no issues, then one day they guy had to dive a borrowed TLS for some reason and he came out, "I can't believe that suit, it's like cheating, how easy it was to manage the bubble". Anecdotal and a single incident, but illustrative of his point.

If your instructor is Bob, then the anecdote is probably about me

I started diving dry in a Fusion, and I truly believe the compression of the skin helped me a lot in the beginning as far as bubble management = there isn't much of one and it moves slowly.

But at some point I started to realize problems in particular with moving the bubble out of my feet on ascent. I don't think I ever looked like I was flailing (... well not much anyway ), but the feeling of light feet bordering on causing issues was annoying. I went through the whole slew of troubleshooting aided by Bob, but I never was quite happy with it. I think the combination of the skin compression and me filling out the calf area - well stuffing it really - may have been the main issues.

Then one weekend during a class I thought I had a leak and borrowed Bob's TLS, and it was a revelation: moving the bubble by simply extending my legs - great feeling and a lot less feeling of "struggle" on ascents. And I did indeed say it felt like cheating diving Bob's suit. Now keep in mind, Bob's suit was no doubt well trained, and probably took over some bubble management tasks when I forgot, but still

Anyway, I now dive a DUI Flex Extreme, and so far I'm liking it. Same cut and general traits as the TLS, but supposedly a bit sturdier - time will tell.

I had no idea rock boots weren't GUE compliant.

The rest just sounds like FUD.

It's not that rock boots aren't "compliant". Some instructors feel that the rock boots limit foot and ankle movement, which in turn can hinder fine fin movement and control. That's true for me; I dove my Fusion with 5 mil wet boots, and it felt ok. But when I one day forgot to zipper the boots, the extra ankle movement made a huge difference in my modified frog and back kicks.

No idea what FUD is ...?

Henrik

 

[TSandM]

Funny -- I recently had the opposite experience. Having dived a Fusion for over three years, I had a week of cave diving in a TLS. I found the suit to dive just about the same, in terms of air movement and ease of dumping. The one thing I thought was different was that, if I didn't get the suit PERFECTLY stretched out and properly situated, it was very uncomfortable in the water. The fabric, with a little squeeze on it, was really hard to move, as opposed to the Fusion, which is still very flexible, even when shrink-wrapped.

 

[HenrikBP]

IMO, dumping is no different between the Fusion and the DUI. It was specifically the air movement out of the feet that was bugging me; I'd go out of trim a bit and extend my legs and wait ... and wait ... started humming the elevator version of "Girl From Ipanema", and then *finally* most air was out of my feet.

My first Fusion was an in-between model, and the calf area has been expanded on newer Fusion models. So that may have helped. I also agree that the Tech skin is (IMO) the better of the Fusion skins. It has pockets (that sag), and an appropriate amount of "squeeze". The Bullet skin is much better built than any of the other skins, but has much less stretch, and again IMO should have been cut larger to compensate.

Henrik

 

[lv2dive]

....Not having good built-in pockets and requiring a set of overshorts, which are kind of like the rockboots, if you forget them, you're hosed, along with sagging or shifting with a heavy load...

I just want to clarify that some of the skins for the fusion come with pockets and I haven't found then to be inadequate for my needs.

 

[ScubaFeenD]

Well, if you look through the equipment sections on the GUE site, or through the teaching materials, you won't find a list of required characteristics for dry suits. I think, in general, it is encouraged to have a dry suit that dries quickly and is self-donning, and of course, one must have pockets. Some GUE instructors dislike separate rock boot type footgear, as it can part company with the suit under the wrong conditions.

The equipment page on the GUE website doesnt address drysuits, but there are specific DIR guidelines that GUE adopts in their classes. They are: The ability to self don the suit and no appreciable buoyancy shift (preference for tri-laminate construction), which are the major "requirements," while having a p-valve, pockets, and (according to DIR and GUE) a shoulder dump are the more minor requirements depending on who you talk to.

The fusion, while not preferred by some GUE instructors, is a fine suit if it fits appropriately and all the after market additions can be installed too.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I was one of the early Fusion adopters ... and try as I might, I just couldn't make myself love that suit. The calf and forearm areas were cut too tight, and the restrictions in those areas completely negated the flexibility advantages they were using as selling points. Pockets sagged down around my ankles when walking. I did eventually get the Fusion boots installed (don't they make those anymore?), and that negated the need for rock boots ... but the socks tended to bunch up inside the boot which was distracting, if not uncomfortable. But the biggest issue I had was how much effort it took to get the damn thing on ... I was working up a sweat just getting into the suit, particularly on hot days when you really don't want to exert yourself any more than you have to before getting wet.

At the time I also owned a TLS350 ... which although chronically leaky, fit me like a pair of favorite jeans. I loved that suit ... and although when I purchased the Fusion I relegated the TLS350 to backup status, I found myself wearing it more and more over time. Eventually I sold the Fusion ... the person who purchased it sent me a PM later on letting me know how much they enjoyed the suit. So I guess it's a matter of preference.

In fairness, many of the things I found objectionable about the Fusion have since been "fixed" by redesign ... I'm told that the newer designs are a breeze to get into and out of ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)