Which One First: Cave 1 or Tech 1?

[gxsr_sarge]

You all make excellent points! The idea of waiting another year or so to do the type of dives that I dream about sounds demoralizing especially after having been "GUE training" for the last 6 months just to get to where I am now (GUE/F Tech, which I know is not that much). However, the idea of getting lost/trapped/silted out, etc. in a wreck also doesn't like a great idea either. I consider myself to be a good diver - at least good enough to know what I'm NOT qualified for.

So if Tech 1 and Cave 1 are "entry level" courses, just at what level or after what courses, in your opinion, would one be "qualified" to fully penetrate (and survive) 100'-150' wrecks?

 

[b1gcountry]

If you get cave training, are there any wrecks you can use it in that are less than 100fsw? Around Southern Lake Michigan, most of the penetrable wrecks are deeper than 100ffw, so cave doesn't make too much sense without tech.

Tom

 

[Blackwood]

Out here on the Left Coast, I opted for Technical training before Overhead training (which starts next month) due to opportunities.

Some good points have been made, but in Florida I'd still opt for Cave 1 first as I imagine that I'd be doing more cave dives than deep wrecks in the immediate future.

So if Tech 1 and Cave 1 are "entry level" courses, just at what level or after what courses, in your opinion, would one be "qualified" to fully penetrate (and survive) 100'-150' wrecks?

UTD Wreck 2

 

[gxsr_sarge]

If you get cave training, are there any wrecks you can use it in that are less than 100fsw? Around Southern Lake Michigan, most of the penetrable wrecks are deeper than 100ffw, so cave doesn't make too much sense without tech.

Tom

Tom, the top decks of most of the more popular wrecks in S. FL. (like USS Spiegel Grove, USCG Duane & USCG Bibb) are at around 100' FSW. One day, I also plan to dive the USS Oriskany (aircraft carrier off of Pensacola, FL.). It's flight deck is at 150' FSW.

What's the water temp in Lake Michigan these days?

 

[gxsr_sarge]

Out here on the Left Coast, I opted for Technical training before Overhead training (which starts next month) due to opportunities.

Some good points have been made, but in Florida I'd still opt for Cave 1 first as I imagine that I'd be doing more cave dives than deep wrecks in the immediate future.



UTD Wreck 2

You're right but wreck dives are about an hours' drive away from Miami while cave dives are about a 6+ hour drive (I know, we're spoiled).

UTD, huh? That Wreck 2 class seems great. I might look into that after I take Cave 1 and Tech 1. Thanks for the link. I didn't know about UTD.

 

[Blackwood]

yah, I have no clue about Florida geography I guess

 

[TSandM]

Well, the two classes have some overlap, in that you have to deal with failures and problems in both of them, but T1 has a very heavy emphasis on skills in midwater. If you have never had to do valve shutdowns and the like, taking C1 might be a good way to get a chance to work on them without having to cope with the additional difficulties of maintaining perfect buoyancy without much of a visual reference. One of my C1 buddies took that class and then went home and took and passed T1 without much difficulty.

On the other hand, if being stressed in midwater isn't an issue for you, and you do more open water diving, you might want to start with T1, because you'll be able to use the cert more frequently.

 

[rjack321]

Well, the two classes have some overlap, in that you have to deal with failures and problems in both of them, but T1 has a very heavy emphasis on skills in midwater. If you have never had to do valve shutdowns and the like, taking C1 might be a good way to get a chance to work on them without having to cope with the additional difficulties of maintaining perfect buoyancy without much of a visual reference. One of my C1 buddies took that class and then went home and took and passed T1 without much difficulty.

On the other hand, if being stressed in midwater isn't an issue for you, and you do more open water diving, you might want to start with T1, because you'll be able to use the cert more frequently.

This is essentially what I was getting at. I think Cave1 is a better stepping stone to your goals, even if you would use Tech1 a tiny bit more/sooner. If the OP weren't taking both in the "next year" I might advise otherwise.

So if Tech 1 and Cave 1 are "entry level" courses, just at what level or after what courses, in your opinion, would one be "qualified" to fully penetrate (and survive) 100'-150' wrecks?

I don't think you necessarily need full cave (cave2) for these kinds of dives although it wouldn't hurt and I imagine your interests will morph as well. There is alot of crossover of the basic material at the T1 and C1 levels, the classes diverge at T2, C2 alot more.

So minimum Tech1, Tech2 and Cave1 and a bunch of experience are going to be in your future (if you stay entirely within the GUE program). Tech2 is at least a year and ~50+ T1 dives after Tech1, its probably the most demanding GUE class.

The UTD wreck1 overhead program is similar to Cave1. I'm sure you would get something out of it, but I'm not sure its worth doing both. I don't think "Wreck2" has ever been taught with UTD or when Andrew was with NAUI.

(edit) I didn't realize you changed to much shallower wrecks. T1+C1 and some experience will be adequate for recreational depths (130ish) if you are conservative and do limited penetrations. By the time 150ft rolls around you are burning through gas and racking up deco with any little delay that you really need the multiple deco gases and a bottom stage to do anything substantive.

(edit2) also merely surviving is not good enough. You need to have fun! While you are interested in some of the most dangerous diving you can do (probably more so than cave diving) you need to be comfortable enough with all of your skills and your buddy's skills to have fun. That will take lots more time and dives than the actual classes. Its good to have goals, just remember its all a journey.

 

[rhlee]

So if Tech 1 and Cave 1 are "entry level" courses, just at what level or after what courses, in your opinion, would one be "qualified" to fully penetrate (and survive) 100'-150' wrecks?

So I asked David Rhea a similar question after our Tech 1, and he basically said, do T2, C1/C2, then go do lots of non-pen. OW tech dives, and lots of silty cave dives with tight restrictions and low/no-viz exits... and then maybe think about it.

YMMV of course.

 

[lamont]

At the risk of massive oversimplification, C1 is mostly "bottom work" while T1 has both "bottom work" and "mid-water work". T1 lecture/review time also has to cover both skill sets and decompression. But both classes run about the same length. I'd suggest C1 and then T1. YMMV.