DIR- GUE Progression of classes - Tech / Cave

[Nick_Radov]

If I were to dive in mixed teams with CCR, it would be easier, but I don't know if that is encouraged in GUE - or is that an advantage of the GUE-JJ to facilitate mixed teams?

I haven't seen any official statements from GUE either encouraging or discouraging mixed CCR and open circuit teams, except that I think GUE instructors aren't allowed to use rebreathers while teaching classes where students are on open circuit. In practice I know mixed teams are common now and may be the only way for Tech 1 divers in some areas to get additional experience.

It's probably best for one open circuit diver to join a team of two CCR divers because the open circuit diver likely won't be familiar with the CCR pre-dive protocol or failure management procedures. Like, if the open circuit diver sees their buddy's CCR O2 regulator leaking are they supposed to shut it off?

 

[barth]

After finishing ccr1 I did a lot of dives with mixed teams (tech 1 and ccr1). There were almost no ccr 1 buddies at that time. And I had to build experience with my ccr. All my cave buddies were only oc cave divers. If I wanted to get experience / keep my overhead experience I had to dive with oc buddies.

I still dive with mixed teams. But that’s because I want to dive with friends who only have oc equipment. Sometimes it’s more important for me to dive with friends and meet friends then get the best dive for myself.

If I want to do dives with ccr buddies I don’t dive in mixed teams anymore.

These are the reasons:

- tech 1 buddies don’t know enough about procedures and failures. (If something is leaking they don’t know what is leaking and don’t know how what the impact is and how to solve it.)

- Gasplanning is different, with oc you also reserve gas for your buddies. With ccr you have your own bailout and don’t reserve gas for your buddies. (When cavediving gasplanning is totally different. When I’m using a rebreather and joining an oc caveteam then don’t know enough about my cave bailout.)

- when diving ccr1 my bailout gas in my doubles is not the same as the gas in their doubles. Max depth for 18/45 as dilluent is 45 meter. Max depth for oc diving with 21/35 is 45 meter and 18/45 is 60 meters.

- When doing a simple deco dive in an oc team everyone got the same decogas. When diving in a ccr team and doing a simple deco dive a lot of times I have only a decostage with ean50 and my buddy has only a deco stage with oxygen. When we have to bailout and the team gets separated every teammember has enough gas for his own deco when he has to bailout. When there is an issue and the team is together, there are more options when different divers have different decogas in the team.

- Deco for oc and ccr are not the same. Oc diver’s don’t have the knowledge to plan a ccr deco dive and underwater they don’t know enough about the ccr deco.

- When diving in a ccr 1 team most of the times dives are longer the in a tech 1 team. The rebreather is more effective. When deco is finished at a reef it would be possible to stay hours at shallow depth with a ccr. That’s not possible for oc divers with tech 1 without bringing more stages.

 

[Imla]

While the possibilities with a rebreather are greater, diving both CCR and tech in the same area as Steinbil I know that the local wrecks/sites are quite suitable for mixed team diving, and also that the locals who dive both open and closed circuit are used to both mixed and non-mixed diving.
Joining an OC T1 diver on a T1 dive is quite simple. Bring enough gas to do your dive as if you didn't bring the rebreather, and give a short intro to possible new signals. The principles of failures and solving will be the same for the oc diver. In a T1 dive the strategy for problemsolving on a GUE rebreather would in my mind be to bail and then ascend/finish on open if possible.
I know of quite a few people that wouldn't mind an afternoon dip in the T1 realm.
He just has to splurge on his own gas and be ready for it. (Luckily the local dive club has banked 10/70, banked 32%, argon a booster, and a gas-bar to make the most seasoned diver drool all over his shirt)


In other words... just do it!

 

[akant]

- Gasplanning is different, with oc you also reserve gas for your buddies. With ccr you have your own bailout and don’t reserve gas for your buddies. (When cavediving gasplanning is totally different. When I’m using a rebreather and joining an oc caveteam then don’t know enough about my cave bailout.)

What are the approved CCR's for GUE CCR class ..Isnt the idea behind the GUE version of the JJ so that you do have gas for another diver and can donate it in the same way as OC ?

 

[SpeedyJ]

What are the approved CCR's for GUE CCR class ..Isnt the idea behind the GUE version of the JJ so that you do have gas for another diver and can donate it in the same way as OC ?

The approved CCR is the JJ and only the GUE configured JJ.

 

[barth]

What are the approved CCR's for GUE CCR class ..Isnt the idea behind the GUE version of the JJ so that you do have gas for another diver and can donate it in the same way as OC ?

You can donate gas, there is a longhose which you can use. If your buddy/a diver needs gas you will donate...

But keep in mind that mod for gas for cc and oc are not the same. Mod for ean32 on OC is 30 meter and cc is 15 meter. When doing a 30 meter dive in a mixed team, bailout in doubles for oc and cc divers are not the same...

WIth ccr you have your own bailout gas. That's what I learnt. With oc you have reserve gas for a buddy, that's what I learnt in oc training. Should the ccr diver carry more bailout when diving in a mixed team? I think it would make sense.

 

[AJ]

You can donate gas, there is a longhose which you can use. If your buddy/a diver needs gas you will donate...

But keep in mind that mod for gas for cc and oc are not the same. Mod for ean32 on OC is 30 meter and cc is 15 meter. When doing a 30 meter dive in a mixed team, bailout in doubles for oc and cc divers are not the same...

WIth ccr you have your own bailout gas. That's what I learnt. With oc you have reserve gas for a buddy, that's what I learnt in oc training. Should the ccr diver carry more bailout when diving in a mixed team? I think it would make sense.

You pointed out imo a possible issue with the GUE way of donating by a CCR diver correctly. That's one of the reasons I'am not so fond of the GUE CCR config.

What I do in a mixed team is that I carry my own bailout. On rec dives I have no issue with sharing my bailout with my buddy. In tec however we will have to have a serious converstaion about team bailout. I'am not to keen on sharing my gas unless it's absolutely neccesary.

 

[AnnikaPersson]

Tech1 or Cave 1 ?

Do what ever comes into your mind when you wake up in the morning.
Follow your dreams, and everything will fall into place, step by step....

- Annika´s basic recommendation

 

[AmbientPressure]

I think either order is fine. The second class will definitely be easier because there is some overlap in skills. But they are sufficiently different also. One thing to consider is how much practice time you'll get in after. I really enjoyed doing a few dives soon after each training to build confidence.

If you're going to Norway, do consider @AnnikaPersson who is amazing

 

[PeskyMonkey]

My wife and I got our tech passes in March. We are taking Cave 1 in August.

Even though we live in the northeast, and there are no caves here and TONS of T1 dives, we still would rather do C1 first. For the same price of a single T1 dive here ($250 for the charters alone, not to mention the helium), we can get on a flight to Mexico and dive caves for a week paying only for fills.