Where to put the smb?

[PfcAJ]

You're free to dive as you please, but you have the dir answer and procedure. I'm not going to go line by line and answer ever single question you pose. But if taking a spool out of a pocket without drifting is tough, you might want to scale down a little.

 

[DevonDiver]

You're free to dive as you please, but you have the dir answer and procedure. I'm not going to go line by line and answer ever single question you pose.

To clarify... is that an 'official' DIR policy, or is it a personal or instructor preference?

I don't claim to be a DIR diver, although I do find merit in many of the principles adopted by the system. Its easy to assume that wrecks and caves require the same approach - in many ways they do... but there are differences and those require consideration.

There's stuff that a DIR diver carries for a cave dive, and not for an open-water dive.... and vice-versa. Wreck diving demands that all those items (and more) need to be carried. The simplistic solution of "stick it in a pocket" just doesn't fly.

I've dived with dry-suit pockets, wet-suit pockets and X-Shorts... none of those provide sufficient capacity, flexibility and accessibility to carry all that I need for a wreck dive - especially multiple spools and DSMBs. Of course, if those pockets were otherwise empty as they are for the typical DIR OW diver... then it'd be a different situation

But if taking a spool out of a pocket without drifting is tough, you might want to scale down a little.

There's no need to be snarky. I just asked some questions and presented my opinions and experience.

If you don't understand what I'm talking about, then you're welcome to come and dive with me - clarity prevails when experienced first-hand, not vicariously through an instructional methodology.

I'm genuinely interested in the DIR 'take' on wreck penetration. I don't see or hear much about it from the community, so I do wonder how it is addressed - or even if it is formally addressed. Whilst 99% of the approach/training/methodology may be shared between different overhead environments, there is still the 1% that differs - and that 1% is what I am questioning here. Small things... but as you know, small things can make big differences.

I'm also genuinely interested on the 'spool in the pocket' concept - as cave divers sometimes have to deal with high-flow (as wreckers deal with current running through a wreck). Less potential entanglements in a cave possibly, but the need to swiftly anchor a search line in those conditions must be equally applicable to both situations. My definition of "swiftly" obviously differs from yours, but then, maybe you've not had a buddy rapidly drift down a passageway during a silt-out?

 

[PfcAJ]

You're free to dive as you please, but you have the dir answer and procedure. I'm not going to go line by line and answer ever single question you pose.

To clarify... is that an 'official' DIR policy, or is it a personal or instructor preference?

I've been training and diving with GUE since 2005, through Tech 2 and Cave 2, and I've been involved with a large scale project since 2007. All my experience gained from in class and actual diving with GUE divers from around the world have shown that SMBs go in a pocket or a backplate pad, and the bungee option remains second choice to those.

don't claim to be a DIR diver, although I do find merit in many of the principles adopted by the system. Its easy to assume that wrecks and caves require the same approach - in many ways they do... but there are differences and those require consideration.

There's stuff that a DIR diver carries for a cave dive, and not for an open-water dive.... and vice-versa. Wreck diving demands that all those items (and more) need to be carried. The simplistic solution of "stick it in a pocket" just doesn't fly.

I've dived with dry-suit pockets, wet-suit pockets and X-Shorts... none of those provide sufficient capacity, flexibility and accessibility to carry all that I need for a wreck dive - especially multiple spools and DSMBs. Of course, if those pockets were otherwise empty as they are for the typical DIR OW diver... then it'd be a different situation

I know you're not DIR, and this seems to be devolving into one of those thread where people go back and forth, just to argue. You said it yourself that you used to carry an SMB in a backplate pad... till it came to a state of disrepair. Buy another? If not, thats cool, but lets not pretend its the same. My suit pockets hold a ridiculous amount of stuff, and on an average dive, I too carry multiple spools, tools, a mask, leashes, double enders, wetnotes, a bottom timer, even a spare 21w lighthead in there. I manage somehow. We NEVER have anything clipped off outside of those pockets, esp not a spool. I've seen them come unraveled multiple times (even happened to me once when I didn't stick it in a pocket), and even your once in '2000' dives is too much inside a wreck or a cave.

no need to be snarky. I just asked some questions and presented my opinions and experience.

If you don't understand what I'm talking about, then you're welcome to come and dive with me - clarity prevails when experienced first-hand, not vicariously through an instructional methodology.

I'm genuinely interested in the DIR 'take' on wreck penetration. I don't see or hear much about it from the community, so I do wonder how it is addressed - or even if it is formally addressed. Whilst 99% of the approach/training/methodology may be shared between different environments, there is still the 1% that differs - and that 1% is what I am questioning here. Small things... but as you know, small things can make big differences.

I'm also genuinely interested on the 'spool in the pocket' concept - as cave divers sometimes have to deal with high-flow (as wreckers deal with current running through a wreck). Less potential entanglements in a cave possibly, but the need to swiftly anchor a search line in those conditions must be equally applicable to both situations. My definition of "swiftly" obviously differs from yours, but then, maybe you've not had a buddy rapidly drift down a passageway during a silt-out?

My method for stopping and not moving when I can't see is just to grab 'hold of something. What are you planning to tie off to that you couldn't grab? Also, getting lost off the line shouldn't be a common occurrence. You're either reel guy, or following reel guy. Reach out and grab the line when vis starts going down... If you're following a line, same thing. I hope the guy with the reel doesn't get lost since the reel is IN HIS HAND. When I dive low vis caves, my buddies all can stop themselves and are ridiculously competent in zero/low vis. If you or you're buddies aren't, go back to the basics. Its the basics that keep you alive.

As with most things, dedicating some time to get good at retrieving items from your pockets is time well spent.

 

[Splitlip]

I use the Halcyon storage pak and I love it...! I would recommend to anyone thinking about using one... I have read many complaints from folks not being able to deploy it and saying the smb gets stuck and you can not pull it out...

I use it on many occasions and have never had a problem with deploying it... What I do, and this is with a 6' Halcyon smb, is fold it accordion stile at about 3.5-4" in width. I then work it into place with the bungee holding it together with the seam facing down. I have the pressure relief valve where it rides in the slot of the backplate. Once in place, I pull the bungee off the smb and clip to my rear D-ring located on my crotch strap...

Never once have I had a problem with it and since its packed this way, I always have it on a dive... just never know when that anchor line breaks and you find yourself a drift...!

Best to you, lee

I do the same except I don't use the butt d ring. I added a "d ring" to the lower right corner of my plate. Never have I had any problems deploying my 54" x 6" marker. My aluminum plate is dive rite, so I had to take a drill to it to receive the mc PAC. Oxycheq makes a similar item.

 

[DevonDiver]

If you or you're buddies aren't, go back to the basics. Its the basics that keep you alive.

I guess I was wrong to assume that I could ask a fair question here, without being pontificated to on the assumption that I was somehow incompetent. That seems to be your recourse in the last few replies.

Of course nobody DIR ever loses the line. Is that why GUE don't teach lost line, lost buddy drills for cave? Oh wait....

All my experience gained from in class and actual diving with GUE divers from around the world have shown that SMBs go in a pocket or a backplate pad, and the bungee option remains second choice to those.

The question remains... is this, or this not, a GUE methodology? You've stated it isn't GUE to bungee, but now you state it is a 'second option'? That's contradictory.

I too carry multiple spools, tools, a mask, leashes, double enders, wetnotes, a bottom timer, even a spare 21w lighthead in there. I manage somehow.

Photos please... as I can't begin to imagine the properties of these 'Tardis pockets'.

We NEVER have anything clipped off outside of those pockets, esp not a spool.

Except just the 'little things' like can lights and stages huh?

I'm not trying to attack DIR/GUE/UTD here - just get to the truth of the matter about how, why or if GUE actually apply a methodology to this... and whether such methodology has been considered specifically for the demands of technical wreck penetration.

It's nice to hear what one GUE diver was taught for caves...and I know the GUE protocols are meant to be universally applicable... but I was really hoping to hear something more enlightening than "you're doing it wrong, do better training", when I posed these questions. To me that's just illustrative of inexperience and regurgitating what you were taught without application to the question asked.

 

[cascas]

So we are all in agreement then, that the only logical and economical solution is for me to purchase a dry suit with pockets?

I thought about stuffing it into an army pouch of my and placing it somewhere on the hog harness but I would like to avoid that. For storing the smb on the backplate, do you stuff the spool back there as well? Hook the spool on the BP? Other than pockets on a pair of board shorts, pockets are just not in my immediate future.

There are shorts on the market with pockets that you waer over your wetsuit. X-shorts is what they are called if I remember correctly. try google

I see Ron beat me to it..

 

[rlynch]

Deven check out the USS Atlanta Project if you haven't already for the wreck diving applications of the standard configuration. It does not specifically state where the SMB is located in the video of course but given that they are GUE divers you can be 100% certain that there is an SMB stored in the MC storage pack attached to each backplate.
from the DIR Equipment Configuration

Alternate Lift Device: Lift bag, diver alert marker, or surface life raft, for open water diving. Halcyon's MC system allows for storage in backplate pack for increased streamlining.

this is all easy to find on the GUE site.

 

[ajduplessis]

Tigh pocket or plate storage pack.

 

[Splitlip]

Hello, hopefully I am posting this in the right place. My apologies if not. I am in the process of switching from a Zeagle Ranger to a Hog BP/W. I am trying to figure out where to stick my smb and spool. The one way I have found is to use the Halcyon MC storage pak. Is there other similar products out there? Where and how do you keep yours secure? Thank you very much for any advice and assistance!
-Nolan

You did post in the wrong place unless you want DIR answers? This being the DIR forum, most answers will be DIR. MC storage PAC which you already have. You'll probably find other answers in the smb forum.

 

[WartedEmperor]

I have TransPac and it has little d rings going along the side. I made a loop with bungee and put it tucked up under there secured with the bungee. It is easy to deploy and streamlined and keep my reel on my butt plate d ring.