Where should the pressure gauge be mounted and what are the advantages of this configuration?

[Nemrod]

Where's your HUD?

(What kind of unit is that?)




CCR donate: reach down/back for your bailout reg (from where it was when you tested it when you got to the bottom); shove it in their face. Almost as fast as a longhose.

My regulator in that photo is an Argonaut Kraken designed by Luis Heros and produced by Vintage Double Hose. A HUD is a step too far for me, maybe someday .

Regarding donation and CCRs. I have noticed rather often that a CCR diver is with a group of OC divers in a loose gaggle (drift diving), all following loosely the DM and none diving outside of deco limits. The OC buddies might need donation immediately from their CCR buddy. What will he do, say, sorry, go next door? The comeback is that is poor practice mixing up and as well poor practice to dive in loose gaggles with no specific buddy. But it happens a lot, especially as the CCR invades recreational dives and becomes more common in such dives.

James

 

[PfcAJ]

A trapped hose or trapped equipment that might be needed in an emergency is still a trapped hose regardless. You pointed out a trapped hose on an octopus and I pointed out a trapped hose on some CCR rigs. You take issue that one is not okay and the other is. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. A trapped hose is still a trapped hose.

Yes, I understand that the difference is that the CCR diver has additional redundancy and options to immediately fall back on so that an unhurried donation is possible from the buddy/team if needed. Additional redundancy is not exclusive to CCR divers. The wrapped long hose in the case being discussed is still a force fitting of a solution that works well with Hogarthian rigs in OC to a CCR where it results in a trapped hose.

Is the hose trapped under the loop and does it therefore require removal of the loop to donate or not?

BTW, the diver who you pointed out had a trapped hose is known to use a back mounted pony bottle so he too has that additional resource to deploy potentially allowing him plenty of time to afterwards deploy his octopus by unclipping one bolt snap on his console or not as desired. And maybe his mates and buddies do likewise. And regardless of what he and his mates do, an OC diver could as well have multiple options and would you still have pointed out the entrapment? And I did agree with you, it is indeed a trapped hose.

James

They aren’t the same… I think you see and understand that they aren’t the same, but are pretending like they are the same as some sort of gotcha game. A long hose intentionally placed under the loop on a rebreather diver is not at all the same or equivalent to an octo accidentally caught under a console on an open water single tank diver. I’ve expounded on the reasons why in previous posts. Saying “a trapped hose is a trapped hose” is just babble at this point. Because it’s not.

You know it, I know it, everyone knows it.

 

[Wibble]

Regarding donation and CCRs. I have noticed rather often that a CCR diver is with a group of OC divers in a loose gaggle (drift diving), all following loosely the DM and none diving outside of deco limits. The OC buddies might need donation immediately from their CCR buddy. What will he do...

Very simple; reach for their bailout regulator and shove it in the face of the out-of-gas diver. Then unclip the bailout stage bottle and hand it to the OOG diver; everything's over then, so head to the surface doing any decompression/safety stops.

There's literally no difference between that and using a longhose or octopus.

 

[Wibble]

A long hose intentionally placed under the loop on a rebreather diver is not at all the same or equivalent to an octo accidentally caught under a console on an open water single tank diver. I’ve expounded on the reasons why in previous posts. Saying “a trapped hose is a trapped hose” is just babble at this point. Because it’s not.

Someone who's diving a rebreather and using a longhose will have been constantly practicing its deployment. By the time it comes to helping people diving with no gas redundancy, the whole donate thing will be as slick as you like.

 

[Nemrod]

They aren’t the same… I think you see and understand that they aren’t the same, but are pretending like they are the same as some sort of gotcha game. A long hose intentionally placed under the loop on a rebreather diver is not at all the same or equivalent to an octo accidentally caught under a console on an open water single tank diver. I’ve expounded on the reasons why in previous posts. Saying “a trapped hose is a trapped hose” is just babble at this point. Because it’s not.

You know it, I know it, everyone knows it.

I am not playing a "gotcha game" certainly no more than are you. You refuse to acknowledge that the hose is trapped under the loop, on purpose or not. People do lots of things on purpose. But, I am willing to learn, please explain why the long hose is intentionally placed under the loop rather than being a holdover from OC long hose practice. You are only intentionally doing so because you refuse to alter methodology from the OC plan.

If I am playing a game it is because you are being obstinate or even obtuse. We were having a discussion, but on scubaboard that is not possible so I will leave you to your equally lacking babble and intentionally trapped hose.

James

 

[Wibble]

I am not playing a "gotcha game" certainly no more than are you. You refuse to acknowledge that the hose is trapped under the loop, on purpose or not. People do lots of things on purpose. But, I am willing to learn, please explain why the long hose is intentionally placed under the loop rather than being a holdover from OC long hose practice. You are only intentionally doing so because you refuse to alter methodology from the OC plan.

According to a recent 'spat' in another thread about Revos (where everyone agreed they were the best rebreathers, I digress...)

The process is you have it around your neck just as you would in Open Circuit ('cos you've all that pent-up muscle memory just bursting to get out). When demanded during your umpteen hours on a platform doing drills, when someone gives you the throat slashing signal, you:

• immediately close the dive-surface valve on the CCR loop
• flick the loop above and over your head
• then you unclip the longhose, clipped to your chest D-ring (obviously nothing else in the way, like a torch, double-ender, stage, etc.). Hopefully you can get to it OK... someone's life depends upon this
• then you pull the longhose over your head and shove it into the mouth of the out-of gas person whilst keeping the left hand out of the way (you have your torch in that hand)
• then you scoop up your necklaced short hose open circuit hose so now two of you are breathing off the same limited diluent
• then you sort out the longhose, under the battery, etc.
• then get back on the loop?

Alternatively, someone diving a normally configured CCR would:

• reach back with their left hand and grab the bailout hose from where it's always stowed on the bailout cylinder (where it was stowed when you tested the bailout at the beginning of the dive)
• shove that in the face of the OOG diver

Or are we missing a step or three?
(Maybe charging the OOG diver for the contents of the bailout cylinder and putting it back in test...)

 

[PfcAJ]

I am not playing a "gotcha game" certainly no more than are you. You refuse to acknowledge that the hose is trapped under the loop, on purpose or not. People do lots of things on purpose. But, I am willing to learn, please explain why the long hose is intentionally placed under the loop rather than being a holdover from OC long hose practice. You are only intentionally doing so because you refuse to alter methodology from the OC plan.

If I am playing a game it is because you are being obstinate or even obtuse. We were having a discussion, but on scubaboard that is not possible so I will leave you to your equally lacking babble and intentionally trapped hose.

James

Sigh. I’ll take it from the top.

The manifolded bailout tanks with sufficient volume to get an OC diver up/out to the next gas are on your back. Reason: space, access to entire volume via long hose.

The long hose is in the normal position as with OC. Reason: anything else requires some sort of bands to manage the hose. A diver needs to be able to re-stow the hose under water. That’s not attainable with bands or bungee. This was worked out in the late 90s and is a component of why the hogarthian system gained so much popularity.

Long hose goes under loop. Reason: over the loop is just miserable. It pulls, it tugs, it just sucks. Under the loop doesn’t pose a problem because of how many steps are between a rebreather diver and being out of gas.

It’s not “trapped” at all. It’s just under the loop. It’s not “trapped” under a canister either. It’s just under the canister.

The real number of steps are way less than what Wibble describes. Close loop, lift it up with left hand, unclip and deploy long hose with right hand, put loop back in mouth with left hand. Then you can deploy the remainder of the hose as needed (or not).

Of course, none of this works if you don’t take the time to develop the skill. Thankfully, most folks who end up using a rebreather in this config have hundreds of tech dives on OC working with the long hose. Unclipping it is a deeply engrained task and isn’t a challenge. Similarly, being on OC for a second while you sort out your business isn’t an issue either. If you aren’t trained, skilled, and practiced, all bets are off.

 

[elan]

Sigh. I’ll take it from the top.

The manifolded bailout tanks with sufficient volume to get an OC diver up/out to the next gas are on your back. Reason: space, access to entire volume via long hose.

The long hose is in the normal position as with OC. Reason: anything else requires some sort of bands to manage the hose. A diver needs to be able to re-stow the hose under water. That’s not attainable with bands or bungee. This was worked out in the late 90s and is a component of why the hogarthian system gained so much popularity.

I was out of diving for few years and now when I came back and I saw this configuration on my friends JJ I was very surprised and glad to see the direction where it went. It was an "issue" diving with CCR guys before as on OC diver as when you are just a team of 2 you are essentially solo from the gas problem resolution prospective.

Do you see other agencies/manufacturers adopting the same CCR bailout config similar to what happened with Hogarthian configuration ?

 

[BlueTrin]

Just for my own knowledge, when we are saying that it’s under the loop, is it a bit similar than the situation with the canister light cable?

I.e. it is under something but still long enough so it can be given to breathe?

 

[PfcAJ]

I was out of diving for few years and now when I came back and I saw this configuration on my friends JJ I was very surprised and glad to see the direction where it went. It was an "issue" diving with CCR guys before as on OC diver as when you are just a team of 2 you are essentially solo from the gas problem resolution prospective.

Do you see other agencies/manufacturers adopting the same CCR bailout config similar to what happened with Hogarthian configuration ?

It’s becoming more and more popular.

The evolution of the whole thing really started with the pSCR and it seems that as soon as GUE adopted a CCR, more and more folks are following suit with other units. People are doing it with the Meg and Fathom quite frequently. I’m not really around a lot of other RB divers so my experience is limited, but it seems to be becoming more frequent.