when to 100'?

[GA Under Water]

So, did PADI or NAUI teach the Pioneers of diving how to dive. Did Jacques Cousteau have an Advanced Open Water Card Where was his instructor. Did [SIZE=-1]John Smeaton have a Gas Mixer Certification. Nah, they learned on their own.[/SIZE]

Sorry couldn't help myself.



BTW: John Smeaton a British engineer invented the air pump in 1771. A hose was connected between the air pump and the diving barrel, and air was pumped to the diver, it was hoped that this method would allow deep sea diving.

 

[vondo]

1. An instructor cant teach you ANYTHING. Youre the one that has to learn, the instructor only provide the means for you to learn it. How well he does this depends on how good instructor he is.

You seem to have a rather odd definition of teaching, something along the lines of "magically causing someone to know something they didn't know before." By your definition no one can ever teach anyone anything. Teaching is helping someone learn (by many different methods).

 

[Diving Doc]

one other thing you should consider. If you are unlucky enough to get a diving injury at this depth....your insurance is invalidated as you are not qualified to go there.

Diver in Egypt exceeded his qualifications and got a bend last year. Insurance co. refused to pay and he is now in debt upwards of £30,000 last I heard.

If you do decide to do these depths, please check you are covered (thats could advice for any diver BTW)

 

[Walter]

one other thing you should consider. If you are unlucky enough to get a diving injury at this depth....your insurance is invalidated as you are not qualified to go there.

If that's the case, you have crappy insurance. If your health insurance covers diving, there's not likely any provision for requiring you to be qualified to go to that depth. Some insurance does have a max depth (usually 130 ft), but that max is not on a sliding scale depending on which card you carry. The DAN Preferred insurance has no depth limit.

 

[jon m]

thanks all for the comments
interesting to hear all the opinions , yes?
btw- the dive was not at molikini - i was on Kauaii(sp?)
trust me, next time i'm on mauaii(sp?) i'll be there! this year i'll be on Kona (poor us!) we're also gonna hit playa del carmen, too
-me

 

[shakeybrainsurgeon]

So, did PADI or NAUI teach the Pioneers of diving how to dive. Did Jacques Cousteau have an Advanced Open Water Card Where was his instructor. Did [SIZE=-1]John Smeaton have a Gas Mixer Certification. Nah, they learned on their own.[/SIZE]

Sorry couldn't help myself.



BTW: John Smeaton a British engineer invented the air pump in 1771. A hose was connected between the air pump and the diving barrel, and air was pumped to the diver, it was hoped that this method would allow deep sea diving.

Absurd.

Cousteau tried diving with pure oxygen early on and had a seizure underwater --- pure luck kept him from dying. The fact that the Wright brothers had no flight training doesn't mean modern pilots can learn to fly without instruction. The point of training is to avoid repeating the lethal and near lethal mistakes of others without experiencing them first-hand. If you ask Cousteau in his later years whether it made sense to dive without any formal training, I'm sure we know what his answer would be. There's a difference between professional adventurers and recreational sporting.

I'm still a little perplexed by people being somehow offended by my comment that those who, today, seek to train themselves to dive may not be using good judgement. The adequacy or inadequacy of training is another issue. I don't get how current training is woefully inadequate yet no training, at least for the elite few, is acceptable. This seems paradoxical to me.

If some middle-aged father of two decides, on a lark, to buy scuba gear and jump into a lake to 60 feet with no training at all, am I wrong for thinking he may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer?

The fact that he might get away with it and eventually figure out how to dive on his own doesn't make it right.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I'm not sure that the PNW incident is a good example of anything other than how serious diving can be, and maybe of an irresponsible instructor. There seems to be a LOT of speculation as to why the events occurred, and who may be to blame.

A further leap is that you assume that the divers were comfortable because an instructor said it's OK. Any certified diver should be aware of the dangers of going deep, and the recommended limits. Suggesting they were comfortable before the dive is pure speculation. People lie, especially if they believe they may face criminal charges. What REALLY happened is one guy died, and they were too deep. Why, how, and who is to blame is all speculation.

Actually, what you just said is speculation.

There's a lot that is known about what happened ... and although "who is to blame" in this case is a matter of legal definition, the events of the evening are very well established. It's just not being discussed on the Internet.

Rightfully so ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Tigerman]

You seem to have a rather odd definition of teaching, something along the lines of "magically causing someone to know something they didn't know before." By your definition no one can ever teach anyone anything. Teaching is helping someone learn (by many different methods).

No, I dont have an odd definition of teaching, Im just realistic about learning. A lot of poeple have this misconception that the teacher/instructor is gonna talk, theill listen, and theire done... Which is totally WRONG.

And yeah, you CAN learn all the theory there is about diving with no instructions whatsoever, if you know how. The key word is "research".
Im not saying that would be an ideal approach, nor would get you a certification, but its fully possible..

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Alot of what I've read concerning going deeper is about the dangers of air consumption at depth. If you're not aware of that and do not constantly monitor your air, you have no business diving to 30 feet. I'm a large man 240lbs and I suck alot of air regardless of my depth "at least compared to my 120lb fiancee" but I personally do not like going much deeper than 60 to 70 feet because of the air consumption, at 100' I do not have much time before I must ascend. And from my experience the deeper I went the less sea life I saw. Anyhow I just don't think everyone should be discouraging new divers from doing deeper dives, but I think the diver needs to aware of the situation and stay more focused on air consumption and don't push the limits of your air supply.
David

Hmmmm ... food for thought ...

- How much air would you need to do a dive to 100 feet for (let's say) 20 minutes and make a "by the book" ascent?

- How long should that ascent take?

- How much air should you have in reserve when you leave the 100-foot depth to begin your ascent?

- How much would you need if your buddy lost his air supply at 100 feet to get the two of you safely to the surface?

When you can answer those questions quantitatively you'll be ready (from a gas management standpoint) to go to 100 feet.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

No, I dont have an odd definition of teaching, Im just realistic about learning. A lot of poeple have this misconception that the teacher/instructor is gonna talk, theill listen, and theire done... Which is totally WRONG.

And yeah, you CAN learn all the theory there is about diving with no instructions whatsoever, if you know how. The key word is "research".
Im not saying that would be an ideal approach, nor would get you a certification, but its fully possible..

Actually, as an instructor I'm inclined to agree with you.

There's a learning/teaching dynamic that is different with every individual. An instructor can say/demonstrate the exact same thing to different students and get wildly varied results.

Likewise an student can receive the same information/demonstrations from a variety of instructors and learn much more from one than from another.

And some people are fully capable of learning something on their own, while others would not be able to accomplish it.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)