when to 100'?

[boulderjohn]

A) Assumes the instructor is competent (not all are, even after 15 years)

“The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet.” --Damon Runyon

A far flung analogy: when my first son was a somewhat new driver, he saw the oil pressure light on the car go on. He looked and saw that he had plenty of oil. He assumed the oil light was malfunctioning--it does happen, after all. One blown engine later, he learned about oil pumps.

If an instructor suggests that you are not ready to do something, and you think you are, assuming tht the instructor must be incompetent is like assuming the oil light is malfunctioning.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

If an instructor suggests that you are not ready to do something, and you think you are, assuming tht the instructor must be incompetent is like assuming the oil light is malfunctioning.

Or ... rather than making any assumptions, there are almost always shallow-water or confined-water tests that can demonstrate whether you are ready or not ... the trick is in knowing what skills you should be testing ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[boat sju]

So going back to the OP. I think everyone agrees that he shouldn't push his buddy out of her experience/comfort zone, but how does he know when he's ready for 100 ft? What I'm reading here amongst a bunch of judgemental bs is that he can't trust his personal comfort zone because it may not agree with his experience level. But what comprises the necessary experience? An AOW card? Apparently that doesn't count for much. Years of diving with a mentor - apparently not that either because that's not "recognized" training. Maybe some of the more experienced divers on this board could put their heads together and come up with some suggested guidelines regarding number of dives at 40 to 60 ft, 60 to 80, skills practiced at depth (to determine comfort level) etc.

 

[boulderjohn]

So going back to the OP. I think everyone agrees that he shouldn't push his buddy out of her experience/comfort zone, but how does he know when he's ready for 100 ft? What I'm reading here amongst a bunch of judgemental bs is that he can't trust his personal comfort zone because it may not agree with his experience level. But what comprises the necessary experience? An AOW card? Apparently that doesn't count for much. Years of diving with a mentor - apparently not that either because that's not "recognized" training. Maybe some of the more experienced divers on this board could put their heads together and come up with some suggested guidelines regarding number of dives at 40 to 60 ft, 60 to 80, skills practiced at depth (to determine comfort level) etc.

That would be a great idea, but I don't think we can quantify a number of dives. There is too much variablilty in the rates at which people learn and the kind of dives that are done within those dives.

Skills practiced at depth is more doable, although you will not receive 100% agreement--or anything close to 100% agreement. That would make an interesting thread, I think.

As far as what you need to know and the basic skills, that has already been done--that is why there are deep diving classes. Most people suggest doing the classes and getting additional practice with an experienced buddy or professional.

Edit: the AOW card by itself is no guarantee that you are ready--but it is a start.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

So going back to the OP. I think everyone agrees that he shouldn't push his buddy out of her experience/comfort zone, but how does he know when he's ready for 100 ft? What I'm reading here amongst a bunch of judgemental bs is that he can't trust his personal comfort zone because it may not agree with his experience level. But what comprises the necessary experience? An AOW card? Apparently that doesn't count for much. Years of diving with a mentor - apparently not that either because that's not "recognized" training. Maybe some of the more experienced divers on this board could put their heads together and come up with some suggested guidelines regarding number of dives at 40 to 60 ft, 60 to 80, skills practiced at depth (to determine comfort level) etc.

I think most of the answers you're asking for were provided in the first 20 or so responses in this thread ... mine were provided in reply # 11 ... http://scubaboard.com/showpost.php?p=2456223&postcount=11

Number of dives is fairly irrelevent, as we all learn at different rates, in different ways, and through a variety of experiences ... there are simply too many variables to quantify in this manner.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[boat sju]

Bob,

I agree with you completely here, especially the part about the relevant answers being contained in the first 20 posts. Sorry but it was just the "tone" this board seems to take sometimes that got me wanting to say something. I think there's a lot of very conscientous discussion that gets lost in threads because of the judgemental nature of some posters.

 

[Web Monkey]

"Comfortable." It's certainly not a good idea to do a dive if you are very UNcomfortable doing it, but being comfortable, in my opinion, means nothing. Being comfortable can mean being ignorant of the reasons why you should be uncomfortable, or discounting them, or relying on assurances from bad advisors.

I was "comfortable" on my #7 dive ever, in Cozumel, when my inflator hose tore off my BC on a wall dive.

The only reason I'm not dead is my instructor had made a huge deal about proper weighting, so I didn't sink like a stone when the hose tore, and just swam it up to the surface for a pickup.

I had been "comfortable" doing the wall dive because I hadn't considered the possibility of a BC failure while hanging over a several thousand foot drop, however I was "safe" because of training, not comfort.

With inadequate training, I could have been "comfortable" all the way to the bottom.

Terry

 

[Tigerman]

I was "comfortable" on my #7 dive ever, in Cozumel, when my inflator hose tore off my BC on a wall dive.

The only reason I'm not dead is my instructor had made a huge deal about proper weighting, so I didn't sink like a stone when the hose tore, and just swam it up to the surface for a pickup.

I had been "comfortable" doing the wall dive because I hadn't considered the possibility of a BC failure while hanging over a several thousand foot drop, however I was "safe" because of training, not comfort.

With inadequate training, I could have been "comfortable" all the way to the bottom.

Terry

Or you could have realized that you where dropping and yanked out some weight and still be "safe"?
But yeah, being comfortable and being safe is not always the same thing..

 

[boulderjohn]

And your point?

Sorry--I didn't realize my point was so obscure. I guess I should have explained it carefully: being comfortable and being safe are not always the same thing.

 

[Rishidian]

Is there an echo?