when to 100'?

[dsteding]

That's what I love about this board... it allows me to leave my mark on the community, however small, ill-received, foul, and argued it may be.

Just remember when you are leaving that stinky brown streak that there are people with much more experience than you that probably thought the same, and are dead.

That is the cold reality. People that went too deep too fast, with poor training, no experience and no understanding of limits.

Also, understand that some of the active participants on this board take it very personally when people kill themselves because of stupidity . . . despite the fact that they barely knew the person, were not at all involved in their deaths, and are excellent instructors.

Those people are out there leaving a mark on their community, one of fostering a safe attitude and a healthy respect for this sport. The bottom line is that you may be a fit, 23 year old male that feels invincible, but there could be a 15 year old naive kid in middle America that reads what you are saying, buys your stinking pile of cow poo, and goes and kills himself in a quarry. People read stuff on the internet and sometimes lack the ability to smell crap when it is out there.

You may say that this isn't likely, to which I'll respond that you should take a look at some of the recent accidents in the PNW. Read those threads carefully, sift through those opinions, and then then draw some informed conclusions about the "mark" you are leaving on this board.

 

[dsteding]

Mind if I ask what your experience level is?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Here is your answer:

http://www.scubaboard.com/showpost.php?p=2414627&postcount=1

Anything else to add or a better itenerary? I am only OW/Nitrox but am certainly not afraid of a good cavern.

 

[SparticleBrane]

I smell a case of 'too far, too fast' syndrome. Anyone else smell that?
...or am I smelling the mark he's leaving here?

 

[Matt S.]

Its the recommended lower limit, according to the book I have (and always carry with me when I dive) from the OW class.. It doesnt say "dont go deeper, moron"
Personally, I try to avoid going below the depths thats recommended..

The instructions that come with the PADI recreational dive planner say this.

8. Limit your maximum depths to your training and experience level (Open Water divers -- 60 feet; divers with greater training or experience -- 100 feet, with no dive in excess of 130 feet).

I definitely read that as saying, "don't go deeper than 60 feet with an OW cert, moron."

 

[Tigerman]

The instructions that come with the PADI recreational dive planner say this.

8. Limit your maximum depths to your training and experience level (Open Water divers -- 60 feet; divers with greater training or experience -- 100 feet, with no dive in excess of 130 feet).

I definitely read that as saying, "don't go deeper than 60 feet with an OW cert, moron."

I would read it as "get more training, fool"
But the book actually says "its recommended" not to exceed blabla..
Just checked my PADI RDP and the only thing it says about limits in any way, shape or form is not to exceed the table limits, however, mine is in Norwegian.. It also says i should keep my *** above 42 meters and that depth is only on the RDP for emergency purposes..

 

[Thalassamania]

The last person I know who ran out of air at 100 feet and tried making a free ascent didn't make it ... Lamont was one of the people who ended up towing her dead body in to shore.

A pity she hadn't been just a bit more "paranoid" ...

Its very tough when something like that happens. If you're not completely comfortable with that kind of an exercise you must have other options. That’s why I consider any dive that you can not confidently make a free ascent from should be viewed as, equipped as and trained for as a “technical” dive. A 100 ft. free ascent is no big deal if you drilled and practiced for it, after all it’s only 2/3 of a competition pool length. But any emergency procedure that a diver has not practiced and is not ready to commit to is a crap shoot at best.

 

[TheHobster]

This statement is totally untrue. Safety is a relative term because it depends on risk. ... Maybe I just come from a different world... the SCUBA community seems ridiculously paranoid and over-safe to me.

when I learned to dive, there was a saying, "There are old divers and there are Bold divers; but there are no old. bold divers"

I hope I don't have to read an accident analysis about your death; you have a dangerous attitude. No matter how enjoyable we make it, underwater is a hostile environment to human life. When Mr Murphy shows up, people can die underwater. Don't believe me? Ask the three people that have died at Gilboa the last few years; or the gentleman at Haigh; or the two Indy firemen that died in training; and those are pretty benign environments; or how about Kimber? I don't know the details of her situation, but I know she was hurt bad. Things can happen underwater, safety must be first and foremost so we can prevent or, mitigate, the damage. Yes, there is risk in diving; we must manage that risk, or we ruin the sport for all.

I plan on all my dives, and my students dives, to end on the surface and a beer in my hand a couple hours later; not in a hospital or morgue. You need to read "The Last Dive". That was real. Rules for all high risk sports are in place because we learned them through accident analysis, usually after someone's death.

Biting death in the *** is a respected and admired trait; but most peple that do it, do so after taking as many variables into account as possible to lessen or eliminate death being able to bite them in the ***. Come back from the dark side, Crazy.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Its very tough when something like that happens. If you're not completely comfortable with that kind of an exercise you must have other options. That’s why I consider any dive that you can not confidently make a free ascent from should be viewed as, equipped as and trained for as a “technical” dive. A 100 ft. free ascent is no big deal if you drilled and practiced for it, after all it’s only 2/3 of a competition pool length. But any emergency procedure that a diver has not practiced and is not ready to commit to is a crap shoot at best.

That is very true ... and am I not saying that people should not go there at all ... I routinely do deep dives. But the subject of this thread pertains to inexperienced divers, and when they should consider going deep. Go back and look at my original responses ... they pertain to first obtaining the requisite training and experience to be able to handle unexpected things that WILL happen at some point in time to anyone who goes deep.

FWIW - there's not just experience and training involved in an emergency ascent from that depth ... there's also the ability to do so while remaining calm and thinking about what you're doing. Most divers don't have that ... nor ever will.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Thalassamania]

… Biting death in the *** is a respected and admired trait; but most people that do it, do so after taking as many variables into account as possible to lessen or eliminate death being able to bite them in the ***. Come back from the dark side, Crazy.

Good analysis Hobs, I can’t tell you how many time I’ve watched from the sidelines as a diver came within a nanometer of being in a situation that would likely have killed them and not even know it. You never know when just being fouled on a piece of fishing leader may escalate into something huge. That’s the thing about diving, it tends to be binary, alive or dead, it’s not like a Mountain Bike accident where you break half the bones in your body and six months later you’re (more or less) OK. Some things are in your control and you can plan and practice for them. But some things are completely out of your control. I can remember getting back to shore and having a beer with a spotter pilot that was working on a project with us. He says, “Man that was some mako.” My colleague and I looked at each and said, “Mako?” The pilot went on, “Yeah, biggest one I ever saw, went right under the Zodiac; really fast. I figured you saw him and that’s why you got out. You missed him by about a second.” I like to think that he missed us … but there it was, one of us was unharmed and almost dead … and there was not a damned thing we could do (or could have done at the time) about it. Those kinds of risks you just have to live with.

 

[Thalassamania]

That is very true ... and am I not saying that people should not go there at all ... I routinely do deep dives. But the subject of this thread pertains to inexperienced divers, and when they should consider going deep. Go back and look at my original responses ... they pertain to first obtaining the requisite training and experience to be able to handle unexpected things that WILL happen at some point in time to anyone who goes deep.

Inexperienced divers have no business deep. Once again, I repeat: “If you are not comfortable making a free ascent from the depth of your dive it is a TECHNICAL DIVE and you need to be trained and equipped for such a dive!”

FWIW - there's not just experience and training involved in an emergency ascent from that depth ... there's also the ability to do so while remaining calm and thinking about what you're doing. Most divers don't have that ... nor ever will.

To my way of thinking it is “experience and training” (and practice) that creates the ability and confidence required to “remain calm and thinking about what you're doing.” It is a shame that most divers “don't have that ... nor ever will,” because it is teachable, but not in one, two or even three weekends.