when to 100'?

[MXGratefulDiver]

Skydiving, technical climbing and diving all share the same problem, running out of air. But when you're diving you can always make a free ascent.<G>

The last person I know who ran out of air at 100 feet and tried making a free ascent didn't make it ... Lamont was one of the people who ended up towing her dead body in to shore.

A pity she hadn't been just a bit more "paranoid" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[H2Andy]

wow...

reality check moment there

 

[Tigerman]

I would expect someone with your experience to be able to answer her questions.

Did you have these same answers coming out of your Basic Open Water class? Do you think most divers coming out of OW today do?

Did you believe you had adequate skills at 11 dives to safely be in an overhead environment at 100 feet? Do you think most divers at that experience level do today?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Using knives to crawl the bottomn was mentioned, but mainly we where taught to cross the current if possible or surface and call attention to the boat if diving from one.

Only thing in the material about decompression was emergency decompression procedures. The "worst-case" scenario was indeed to suck your bottle as dry as possible before submerging and then suck o2 if available.
Hang bottles was in the AOW material in the section deep dive.

Sharing air OBVIOUSLY was in the OW material.

I still dont know what that "corrugated hose" thing is (lost in translation), so i cant comment on that..

So i guess most of that suff is mentioned in OW, but if it take and you remember it when in the situation requires it is of course a different thing..

Do i think i should dive in an overhead enviroment at 100 feet? Hell no! I dont think I should at 10 feet either for that matter..

 

[Crazy Fingers]

The last person I know who ran out of air at 100 feet and tried making a free ascent didn't make it ... Lamont was one of the people who ended up towing her dead body in to shore.

A pity she hadn't been just a bit more "paranoid" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

That doesn't mean anything. I've seen dead bodies lying on the side of the interstate but it doesn't mean I don't drive there every day. How many dives to 100 feet are done every day the world over where nothing happens? Moreover, I don't know the exact cause of her death, and maybe nobody does. I would ask why she ran out of air in the first place and where her buddy was.

Again, I will repeat it: If you paid attention in OW class, have a little hair on your balls, and aren't a complete buffoon, you can dive to 100 feet safely under most water conditions. (In other words, don't dive 100 ft into a swirling, zero viz, ice water siphon. Duh.)

Jeez, it's no wonder that so many people are so scared about diving. You all make it sound like you're going off on a suicide mission to sap a minefield every time you get in the water. Sorry to bust all of ya'lls bubbles... but you aren't out there barely surviving every time you dive. The recreational aspect of this sport ain't that hardcore, it ain't that tough, and it ain't that dangerous. It's pretty damn safe and pretty damn easy.

I mean, I truly am sitting here thinking about how laughable the whole situation is. I'm really not trying to be a jerk, I just think we need to get realistic about safety and what a newer diver can accomplish... First hundred dives to less than 30 feet? Limiting a OW cert to 60 feet? Paying a DM to go to 70 feet under a normal situation? Come on! That's about weenied out, man. If you all heard some of the stuff spearos out here do you would shat a brick.

 

[TSandM]

Crazy Fingers, there are different approaches to life.

At the risk of sounding both sexist and old, I will say that the majority of the serious automobile accidents I used to take care of at Harborview, the major trauma center for the Pacific Northwest, were men in the age range of 18 to 25. Usually they had been drinking, and got in their cars and tried to push the edge of the envelope. They usually lost.

There is a population of people who enjoy risk-taking, usually without giving a great deal of thought to the consequences of losing their bets. For such a person, careful planning and risk mitigation simply has no appeal.

I read somewhere that an author was surprised to get to know cave divers. Cave diving is the most dangerous diving you can do, so he expected a bunch of cowboys. What he found were boring people. They were anal, risk-averse, and meticulous, checking and double-checking everything and planning in minute detail to MINIMIZE the risks. A lot of the people on this board are that kind of person. You are apparently the other kind. You can make your decisions and act on them for yourself, but when you recommend that strategy to others, you are going to find some of us quite vocal in our objections.

 

[dsteding]

Again, I will repeat it: If you paid attention in OW class, have a little hair on your balls, and aren't a complete buffoon, you can dive to 100 feet safely under most water conditions.

The problem is, some people don't know they are complete buffoons until it is too late . . .

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

That doesn't mean anything.

Try looking her kids in the face and telling them that.

How many dives to 100 feet are done every day the world over where nothing happens?

How many people drive drunk every day the world over and don't get into an accident. Does that make it a safe thing to do?

Moreover, I don't know the exact cause of her death, and maybe nobody does.

I do ... so do a lot of other people.

I would ask why she ran out of air in the first place and where her buddy was.

Because they don't teach gas management in OW class ... and because people like you keep telling people like her it's an OK thing to dive deep with little to no experience. Her dive buddy was there ... trying to donate a reg. But when panic sets in, people don't think the way they were taught in OW class. That's a cold case of reality ... what you learn in a classroom and what you learn by actually diving are very different things.

Again, I will repeat it: If you paid attention in OW class, have a little hair on your balls, and aren't a complete buffoon, you can dive to 100 feet safely under most water conditions. (In other words, don't dive 100 ft into a swirling, zero viz, ice water siphon. Duh.)

Well, that might sound like a nice theory, but there's a big difference between book smart and experienced smart ... and you don't get the latter by paying attention in OW class. You're telling people it's OK to go out and drag race on the freeway with a learner's permit.

Jeez, it's no wonder that so many people are so scared about diving. You all make it sound like you're going off on a suicide mission to sap a minefield every time you get in the water. Sorry to bust all of ya'lls bubbles... but you aren't out there barely surviving every time you dive. The recreational aspect of this sport ain't that hardcore, it ain't that tough, and it ain't that dangerous. It's pretty damn safe and pretty damn easy.

The recreational aspect of this sport still ends up killing some people ... and most of the time it was completely avoidable with a little training, knowledge, and common sense.

But hey ... it's your life. It you want to take it casually, go nuts. I just hope your attitude doesn't end up bringing somebody you love home someday in a body bag ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Crazy Fingers]

Crazy Fingers, there are different approaches to life.

At the risk of sounding both sexist and old, I will say that the majority of the serious automobile accidents I used to take care of at Harborview, the major trauma center for the Pacific Northwest, were men in the age range of 18 to 25. Usually they had been drinking, and got in their cars and tried to push the edge of the envelope. They usually lost.

There is a population of people who enjoy risk-taking, usually without giving a great deal of thought to the consequences of losing their bets. For such a person, careful planning and risk mitigation simply has no appeal.

I read somewhere that an author was surprised to get to know cave divers. Cave diving is the most dangerous diving you can do, so he expected a bunch of cowboys. What he found were boring people. They were anal, risk-averse, and meticulous, checking and double-checking everything and planning in minute detail to MINIMIZE the risks. A lot of the people on this board are that kind of person. You are apparently the other kind. You can make your decisions and act on them for yourself, but when you recommend that strategy to others, you are going to find some of us quite vocal in our objections.

Well I won't argue with anyone that I am willing to take more risk than most others on this board. Although I bet there are quite a few reading this thread and agreeing with me, even if they don't say anything.

And although I do fall in to a particular category that you mentioned, I am actually quite risk averse. I don't think anything I do is particularly dangerous, although it's of course ten thousand times more dangerous than sitting at home on the couch. But that certainly doesn't mean if you do it that you're going to die. That's what I don't understand about the SCUBA community.. it's not really that dangerous, and it seems almost like new divers are bullied and strongarmed into being scared of it. Riding sport bikes is dangerous as hell. Trad climbing is dangerous as hell. Alpine and Ice climbing are dangerous as hell. Scuba... not really, although as I said it's not as safe as doing nothing. I think someone needs to tell them the true risk comparison of what they are doing. And if you want to dive deep, all I can say pay extra attention to what you know you should be doing anyways, and don't F it up.

That's what I love about this board... it allows me to leave my mark on the community, however small, ill-received, foul, and argued it may be.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I mean, I truly am sitting here thinking about how laughable the whole situation is. I'm really not trying to be a jerk, I just think we need to get realistic about safety and what a newer diver can accomplish... First hundred dives to less than 30 feet? Limiting a OW cert to 60 feet? Paying a DM to go to 70 feet under a normal situation? Come on! That's about weenied out, man. If you all heard some of the stuff spearos out here do you would shat a brick.

Mind if I ask what your experience level is?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[SparticleBrane]

You're leaving your mark alright.
There's a big steaming pile of it all over this thread.