When does diving become "ridiculous"?

[RainPilot]

@boulderjohn just read the article, have you been spying on me? Excellent article and conveys what I was trying to say much more concisely. i should do a writing course to get better....

 

[covediver]

I guess that I am with you. If I have to ask I probably wouldn't get it.

The best I can do is read the explanation of the attraction that have been written, starting with The Last Dive by Bernie Chowdhury and progressing through all the books about people diving and dying on the Andrea Doria. It is the innate sense that have some for adventure, some people ski out of bounds, some people climb denali. some don't come home.

 

[PfcAJ]

Like many others, I have been watching this thread on the recent fatalities at Eagles Nest. I have done a lot of diving over the years, but this particular dive is so far beyond what I do, I simply can't even comprehend what goes into the planning and execution of a dive like that. Beyond that, I don't really understand the point of undertaking such a risky venture, when there is no benefit to it, other than to make a cool entry in a log book. There is nothing new being learned as it's not "exploration". EN has been thoroughly dived and "mostly" mapped and so this dive, as monumental as it was, really served no point. In return, two guys (who are likely friends of friends, although I don't know them personally) are dead under horrific circumstances. Numerous rescue/recovery divers risked their lives to recover their bodies and equipment and a few weeks from now, this will all be forgotten. I don't want to come across as being critical of these divers or this specific dive, but use it as an example.

I should add that I "get" the appeal of cave diving. Two of my oldest friends are well-known figures in the cave diving world and if I name-dropped, you would know them too. Many of my friends are tourist cave divers, making a trip or two a year to Florida or Mexico. While I prefer pretty fish and sunshine, I understand the appeal of spending an hour or two moving though Mother Earth as one of my friends would say.

What I don't understand is why someone would choose to undertake a dive that has zero room for error. By all accounts, these two divers were well-trained and experienced, and properly equipped. They didn't do anything especially "wrong" it seems, but non the less, they are dead. They aren't the first and they won't be the last. I lost a friend in the caves a few years ago, his death being the result of a careless moment and a bad attitude, but that's a whole other conversation.

So why do some of "us" choose to do this kind of diving? It seems selfish to me. Friends are hurt, Families are destroyed. Kids are made orphans. Spouses are left wondering why "we" put diving ahead of them...

I understand that any of us can die driving to work, or slipping in the shower. I've logged well over 5000 dives, mostly what I would describe as "techreational"... deeper recreational dives that require deco. These dives have consequences if I mess up, but the risk is manageable, and even if I mess up a little, there's a pretty good chance that I can muddle my way through and make it home in time for dinner.

I doubt that I am alone in my wondering. I presume there is an adrenaline factor in all of this. Or just the satisfaction of a "good plan, well executed". Maybe the pleasure only comes from knowing there is significant risk and zero room for error. Like BASE jumping. Jumping out of a plane isn't buzz enough, so jump off a cliff in a wingsuit and see how close you can come to the rocks/trees/building/antenna. Good fun until you "auger in" and end up like a bug on a windshield.

I don't get it. Maybe I'm just getting old.

I think explaining the 'why' of cave diving is nearly impossible, but I still like to try.

There's something fantastic about going somewhere that few humans have been. Mountains. New lands (age of exploration). Space. You name it. Cave diving has that. Its challenging physically and mentally. Its unique. Really unlike anything else. The formations are beautiful, having took eons to form, and for some of us you're privileged enough to be literally the FIRST human to ever see them. Its incredible.

I do not think that these types of dives have zero margin for error. There is always a point at which a set of circumstances is unrecoverable. It happens all the time in recreational scuba diving, just look at the accidents and incidents forum. There's nothing to be 'learned' on a reef dive, or a highly visited wreck, so what's the point of that? To go somewhere amazing. To experience something unique. Something that has an appeal. Cave diving is no different. The dives are planned to cover a certain number of contingencies, but there's always the chance of encountering some situation you just don't have the resources to manage.

Regarding the incident you reference, consider what resources they had: 3x scooters (takes 3 failures before you're swimming), 4x lp95 bailout bottles, 2x al80 bailout, a whole slew of open circuit deco tanks. 6 lights. Its not zero margin BASE jumping. I think its a bit unfair to characterize what they were doing as some adrenaline fueled suicide mission. I know that when I go on a dive that's ridiculous (and I've been on some ridiculous ones) everything is well planned and thought out and there's no adrenaline at all.

Nothing we do is without risk. The question for each individual is the risk worth the reward? For me, a well planned dive with the right resources firmly plants that ratio in favor of the 'reward'. For others, they might feel differently.

 

[2airishuman]

So why do some of "us" choose to do this kind of diving?

Stoo, thanks for speaking my mind on this.

The EN accident has captured a good deal of my mind space because it doesn't fit into my usual neat categories for dive accidents (medical, inexperience, poor planning, diving beyond training, etc). I doubt if I'm alone in that.

Someone made the related point in another thread that no training program exists that prepares people for a dive comparable to the one undertaken in EN. It seems to me that there are dives where the depth, time, poor access to the surface, and other hazards are such that no amount of training can make the dive safe. You can only carry so much gas. What is safe? It's blurry line, and I can see that EN is somewhere close to that line. For me it is a dive I will never attempt. I won't presume to make the choice for others. That road leads to the scuba police. Nonetheless it is troubling that there is a culture that glorifies dives like that. Cave divers still follow the precept of non-promotion of the sport, I believe, but once inside the "club," that doesn't apply, does it?

 

[CptTightPants21]

Why I dive?

To explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before.......

 

[Rapid Star]

To each his own...

Just because some people don't understand what drives others doesn't discount what those others do or why.

I agree, what drives me is entirely different from what might drive the person next to me. Who am I to say what is right and what is crazy.

 

[mdb]

For me the scariest part of diving is the drive to get there.

I am not a cave diver, nor do I want to be.

I enjoy wrecks, both here in Michigan, New Jersey, and the wrecks sunk in Florida and San Diego.

Threads like this provide lots of information and viewpoints.

For the most part this thread has stayed pretty much on track. Very informative.

 

[Stoo]

Thanks for your thoughts. I don't in any way want to come across as "disapproving"... I just don't understand why someone would willingly put themselves into such a high risk "adventure".

Maybe as gr88 put it, my own sense of mortality is causing me to scratch my waterlogged melon.

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

Some non divers (my mother in law) - think going under water - OW diving - is ridiculous... Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and perception is reality...

 

[tbone1004]

@Stoo it depends on what you determine to be high risk. For many of us, we consider cave diving less risky than diving in open water. No currents, no boats, no dangerous animals, etc. RIP Lynne Flaherty....

The only thing that you can't directly control that can kill you is equipment failure *yes cave in's can happen, but it's not worth planning for*. The risks are no different than in open water technical diving so it is about controlling your reactions and making sure that you don't make a problem worse. The equipment failures are factored in with appropriate redundancy and extra safety factors that pad that redundancy. Cave diving is very low risk from an equipment/environmental standpoint imho, but the high risk factors are determined by the diver. Complacency, aversion to risk, etc. There will always be bad days, there is the possibility that a dive can go so wrong that you can't plan for it and you're going to eat it, but those are very rare