“Duty of Care” when taking others on personal vessel, to dive

[Sea_Jay]

I do it. I don't charge anything. My friends just throw in on fuel costs and always help with clean-up....etc.

This is boat for hire as far as coastguard is concerned

I believe it actually has to be 51% or greater (of fuel/operating costs) to be considered a "charter" per USCG....looking up the details on that now. But that is what I have always heard.

 

[bakodiver391]

I believe it actually has to be 51% or greater (of fuel/operating costs) to be considered a "charter" per USCG....looking up the details on that now. But that is what I have always heard.

"Operating costs". That's a slippery target to nail down. Helps if all your friends are multi-millionaires.

 

[pauldw]

You have a duty not to run over people with your propeller.

 

[rjack321]

I believe it actually has to be 51% or greater (of fuel/operating costs) to be considered a "charter" per USCG....looking up the details on that now. But that is what I have always heard.

There is no defined percentage, every "is this a charter or not?" enforcement action is examined based on the totality of the circumstances. In many ways this is similar to "what would a reasonable boat owner do" - which is how a duty of care is defined in court. Neither is a spreadsheet of expenses or equipment.

As an example, the USCG doesn't require any vessel to have an anchor. A reasonable boat owner of a canoe or kayak may never own one. A reasonable owner of a 24ft dive boat would.

 

[Wookie]

There is no defined percentage, every "is this a charter or not?" enforcement action is examined based on the totality of the circumstances. In many ways this is similar to "what would a reasonable boat owner do" - which is how a duty of care is defined in court. Neither is a spreadsheet of expenses or equipment.

As an example, the USCG doesn't require any vessel to have an anchor. A reasonable boat owner of a canoe or kayak may never own one. A reasonable owner of a 24ft dive boat would.

It also depends on how the other folks on the boat answer the question. "I'm pitching in for gas" creates far less interest than "The owner asked me for gas money".

 

[admikar]

Reading threads like this, boy am I happy not to live in the land of free, home of the brave.
Of course, I wouldn't take just any stranger from the street on my boat, but it wouldn't even cross my mind to think if I am going to get sued by friends that had an accident on my boat, barring me intentionally running boat over said friend.
Even though frivolous suits aren't really a thing here, I have a feeling we are slowly pushing towards that goal. But one thing we do have that puts some brakes on this trend is that once you lose, you are to pay ALL legal expenses. And you are liable with all of your possessions.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

All of this really sucks. What ever happened to the days where folks could just go out diving together on a private boat without worrying about losing our houses...or worse. I can understand if there was some level of "willful negligence" or intent to commit harm...but otherwise **** just happens sometimes.

Here's an example of our Great American Legal System. We live on acreage in a very rural area. No fences. While I was out of town my wife heard dogs crying on the back of our neighbors property a few hundred yards away. She went to go investigate. The dogs (not ours) were trapped in a old mining pit filled with water and were drowning. To make a long story short, my wife saved one dog's life ...but she seriously hurt her knee in doing so. The other dog drowned.

When we contacted OUR OWN INSURANCE company to cover the cost of her knee injury repair.......we were told by OUR OWN INSURANCE company that since the injury occurred on another property we HAD to sue them or OUR OWN INSURANCE company would not cover any of the costs. We did not want to sue our neighbors but also did not want to pay the $75K + for an injury that we as self employed business owners pay high premiums to cover.

Not only did we lose a law suit that we NEVER wanted, but the judge would not allow us to tell the jury that we were forced into a lawsuit that we did not want.

 

[Belzelbub]

I do it. I don't charge anything. My friends just throw in on fuel costs and always help with clean-up....etc.

This is boat for hire as far as coastguard is concerned

I'm not sure I follow. Are you saying that your friends chipping in for fuel and helping with clean-up constitutes a boat for hire in the CG's eyes? I don't believe that's correct. Now, it can be a bit of splitting hairs. Passengers can voluntarily share in costs, but if it is mandatory for boarding, then that makes it for hire.

Illegal Charters: Don't Step Aboard

Illegally operated charter boat operations are more common than you think. Here's an inside look at a Coast Guard sting operation.

www.boatus.com

The friends that I take often give me some money, offer to bring food, etc.

The CG is undoubtedly cracking down on illegal charters, especially in some areas. For the most part, they are not looking for a person taking out a few friends and getting some money for fuel, ice, etc. The illegal charters they are after are a bit more organized, and run pretty much like a charter. Minus those pesky insurance, captain's credentials, etc.

That's not to say that you can't get in trouble, just the same. It all depends on the individual doing the checking. If a group of friends know each other pretty well, and there is no set fee for the trip, then chances of being considered an illegal charter drop significantly.

 

[BRT]

Everyone has a right to pure oxygen.......but everyone also has a right to not sell you their pure compressed oxygen.

It is interesting that compressed 100% O2 is handed routinely to millions of seniors, including those with alzheimer's and dementia.

Worse than that it is handled by welders and other shop personnel who are working on vehicles filled with flammable liquids.

 

[admikar]

True, but that is not medical grade.
It's not about pure oxy, it's about breathing pure oxy.