Duty Cycle of Coltri Icon LSE 100?

[iain/hsm]

Interesting that the object you posted is sold by Bauer, Lawrence Factor etc as a check valve with no pressure regulating capability, NOT a PMV.

Have you verified that it actually functions as a PMV?

Good point and I agree entirely with you.

It won't work as intended. But truth often offends the Simps so I will make it easy.

British humor aside.

1. If the OP bought the compressor as supplied as in photo 1

2. Then bought that particular valve online as in photo 2 and installed it as in photo 2

3. Then it won't work properly

4. And the contributor with the 450% suggestion earlier is also 100% wrong

There easy quick a simple reply and no one was offended or got their panties in a twist.
I call that a result. But it still won't work properly however much others complain.

 

[diversity]

Granted the label on the valve only states "BackPressure Regulator" and no value, but it "does" state model 1310. One can trace the specs with that. But it performs perfectly at building backpressure to 1800 & "Pressure Maintaining" (pmv) to 1800 psi upstream of it for the 2 filter chambers when output is below 1800. Once bleeders are shut it takes 20 seconds to build pressure from zero to 1800, open and start flowing to tanks.

However, it works lousy as a check valve. It is too sluggish to shut off and isolate quickly whenever I bleed condensate. It seems to require too much DP to shift, or has too much mechanical hysteresis and ends up losing a few hundred psi downstream of it before it shuts off. I had to add a dedicated check valve downstream and now THAT works as I need/expect it to also. it snaps shut instantly and doesn't seem to lose a bit downstream, even on a small pony where it would be easy to see a loss, or just the charged hoses. I can't ask more than that. And before I made it permanent with NPT connections, I figured I'd just use a quick removable swivel JIC connection in case it didn't perform to my liking. Ok, go easy on me about the deck screws.

 

[iain/hsm]

Granted the label on the valve only states "BackPressure Regulator"

Not worried about the regulator that works perfectly as designed.
Its the assembly of those parts that your failing on.

1. In photo 1 above you could only see an open to atmosphere DIN 200 bar connector bottom left in the photo under the renforced PVC intake hose.

This open DIN fitting was how Coltri used to supply The MCH-6 historically with the hose DIN attachment without a BPR and open to the atmosphere and even with you adding a BPR that regulator will only work effectively on the first fill.
Thereafter say overnight the BPR will leak out all the dry HP air in the filter tower past the BPR seat and drain the chemical tower of its essential dry air and pressure to retain effectiveness.

2. Now by contrast in your new photo you now show you have a on/off bleed valve with gauge attached to the DIN 200/300 bar connector this is critically a more suitable way of attachment as once you fill a cylinder turn off the charging hose and cylinder valve then bleed the small space between the DIN fitting and the cylinder to uncouple you still have all the dry air still sealed in the chemical filter housing.

Only now again by having those four (4) open fittings on that bar manifold unless your intend to spend more money and put on/off line valves in those 4 positions your back to the same ineffective poor position.

Move the check valve to after the BPR move a line valve to before the manifold and if required add four check valves to the outlet posts of the manifold to stop cross filling and cross mixing if you really intend filling four cylinders at a time. Better yet ditch the manifold and fill directly one cylinder at a time.
Use the line valve on the charging DIN connection to retain pressure in the filter tower after use and then and only then will the 450% increase in critical filter chemical life be achievable.

Also take your photos further back so we can see everything clearly. Iain

 

[iain/hsm]

1. The BPR regulator you purchased I guess was done online and you were given no advice. This is bad.

2. The model type is ideal for a specific application but has a known internal leak rate or 0.05 SCFM

3. Now your Coltri primary chemical filter tower needs also to have a check valve on its inlet side. This is essential both in having a check valve and in its position. before the chemical tower.

4. This way after switching off you can drain the water/oil separators fully and even leave them open without draining the chemical tower of its essential pressure

5. Now you know that the BPR you have chosen will continue to drain the chemical tower at the rate of 0.05 SCFM

5. Calculate or measure the internal diameter and length of the chemical tower internals to get litres volume (say 0.5 Ltrs) times this by the BPR 1800 psig pressure setting in BARG 125 Barg Then divide by the 0.05 SCFM in Litres per minute around 1.416 LPM

So 0.5 litres water capacity x 125 bar is 62.5 litres of dry gas leaking out at a rate of 1.416 Litres per minute is 46 minutes assuming P1 is at a constant 125 bar and its not so do the calculation again at all the failing P1 pressures for flow or take it a read its emptied out overnight.

Clear as mud maybe but your going to need a bigger diameter filter tower with a much larger internal diameter if your think dwell time can be confused with flow rate.

 

[diversity]

1. The BPR regulator you purchased I guess was done online and you were given no advice. This is bad.

2. The model type is ideal for a specific application but has a known internal leak rate or 0.05 SCFM

3. Now your Coltri primary chemical filter tower needs also to have a check valve on its inlet side. This is essential both in having a check valve and in its position. before the chemical tower.

4. This way after switching off you can drain the water/oil separators fully and even leave them open without draining the chemical tower of its essential pressure

5. Now you know that the BPR you have chosen will continue to drain the chemical tower at the rate of 0.05 SCFM

5. Calculate or measure the internal diameter and length of the chemical tower internals to get litres volume (say 0.5 Ltrs) times this by the BPR 1800 psig pressure setting in BARG 125 Barg Then divide by the 0.05 SCFM in Litres per minute around 1.416 LPM

So 0.5 litres water capacity x 125 bar is 62.5 litres of dry gas leaking out at a rate of 1.416 Litres per minute is 46 minutes assuming P1 is at a constant 125 bar and its not so do the calculation again at all the failing P1 pressures for flow or take it a read its emptied out overnight.

Clear as mud maybe but your going to need a bigger diameter filter tower with a much larger internal diameter if your think dwell time can be confused with flow rate.

Yes that open-to-atmosphere DIN is how I received the compressor. That just wouldn't do, and is at least an external fix. As far as calculating canister size, I don't need to calculate that, I simply timed it and it drains out WAY faster than overnight. I essentially bought a useless new compressor, and am trying to meet my deadline with essential modifications to make it usable. I never expected to be able to hold pressure in the filters overnight, but from the check I added to the tanks it will. I only need it to hold for a relatively brief cooldown period. Sure, I have 3 sizes of Swagelok benders, but do I really want to disassemble a new compressor to be able to re-tube it and insert check valves where they didn't design in enough space for them the first place? Not really. These upgrades will have to be external. And yes I used the terms loosely, but the model 1310 does "maintain" backpressure.

Doing away with the manifold is not an option. That is one of my criteria, to not make and break connections at different intervals based on varying tank sizes. I don't plan to run the compressor the entire 2 to 2.5 hours at one time to fill the multiple tanks, I just want to be able to switch off the compressor before the recommended 100 minutes, wait the 30 minute cool down period or more, then switch it back on (after unloading) without bleeding & re-charging manifold & hoses, switching out tanks, valving off tanks, etc. That is the LAST thing I'm going to do with this compressor.

I have 4 or 5 more Microbore hoses & DIN-to-#4 JIC fittings on hand, but am considering fitting each hose permanently with more of the same on/off bleed valve DINs, just without the gauges, and leave them permanently attached to those manifold fittings I capped.

There is only so much expense I'm willing to endure in order to save a few $42 media cartridges per season. I think I'm close to the point of diminishing return, if not already passed it. My order of priority though is safety, then convenience, then expense. If this compressor proves unreliable or not cost effective, I'm not against considering another model, or even another make in the future. I've said for many years, "I've never thought about my wallet when on the bottom of the ocean".

 

[grantmac]

Definitely needs check valves before the filter stack as mentioned. My Bauer has them before and after plus the adjustable PMV which also acts as a backflow prevention device.
The condensate drains have no affect on filter stack pressure in a correctly designed system and my filter maintains pressure for at least a week.

 

[diversity]

...........
The condensate drains have no affect on filter stack pressure in a correctly designed system.........

Ah, that's the catch..... in a correctly designed system. Even Nuvair's hands are tied regarding the retrofit they perform of the Icon prior to shipment. They were forced to install that model 1310 backpressure regulator in the same place I did. Except they used NPT connections. I wasn't going to cut, swage and modify tubing just to determine what components were satisfactory. Still is a work in progress as the season approaches in a few weeks.

I'll have to remove the belt guard and see just how congested it is between the condensate trap and the media stack. It's pretty busy in there. That would be too good to be true if I could hold that pressure on the media for weeks. If that were the case, I'd also install a shut-off valve immediately exiting the filter outlet, just prior to where I installed the BPR.

Tanks A Lot, thanks a lot. That article was good reading. Although some was known, some was not.