when do you use a pony bottle?

[captain]

I completely agree with the "plan your dive and dive your plan" philosophy.

That said, can one of you nay-sayers tell me what actual HARM a pony bottle does, aside from offering some peace of mind? Ok, you're carrying some extra gear, but that's an individual choice, isn't it? More gear to maintain and spend money on, but there's that individual choice again. Less streamlined... there's that individual choice again. (Note that I'm not talking about wreck penetrations or tech diving with special gear requirements here.)


Harm, more clutter, more entanglement hazard, more drag=increased gas consumption, finding pony empty when needed because of undetected leak, increased task loading.

 

[CompuDude]

I completely agree with the "plan your dive and dive your plan" philosophy.

That said, can one of you nay-sayers tell me what actual HARM a pony bottle does, aside from offering some peace of mind? Ok, you're carrying some extra gear, but that's an individual choice, isn't it? More gear to maintain and spend money on, but there's that individual choice again. Less streamlined... there's that individual choice again. (Note that I'm not talking about wreck penetrations or tech diving with special gear requirements here.)

Harm, more clutter, more entanglement hazard, more drag=increased gas consumption, finding pony empty when needed because of undetected leak, increased task loading.

Clutter, entanglement, drag... all these things are individual choices, and in no way make a pony actually BAD. One could say the same thing about a dry suit, but people find the extra comfort worth the tradeoff in drag and air consumption. It's also more complicated to operate, and has way more points of failure. Shall we ban them, too, by the same logic? Or perhaps we realize that some things are more and less important to others, but that doesn't necessarily make them BAD, nor should they be accused to causing actual harm.

If you find your pony empty due to an undetected leak in an emergency, well, you're not really worse off than you would be if you didn't have one at all, are you?

If we are talking about a pony as extra air, in my opinion why not carry more back gas and turn the dive sooner. Single 80 + 30 pony= 110. Use a bigger single or small doubles. Turn the dive where you would as if it was a single 80. Of course this requires planning and self discipline not to use that extra 30 cf watching the pretty fish. Easier to carry a pony.

But why not do that, plus have the added redundancy of a FULLY redundant system, without the bulk and expense of doubles?

My SEAL friend use to say: "Two is one and one is none!". An octo is NOT fully redundant. Doubles are, but then there are other drawbacks. Personal choice.

Besides which, I have said time and time again, I am not referring to using ponys as "extra air" to extend your bottom time. This discussion is strictly about their value (or perceived danger) in use as an emergency bailout system of last resort, used in conjuction with proper gas planning.

 

[captain]

I haven't said ponys are bad and should be banned or good and should be mandatory. As you said it's all personal choises, but it seems some feel that using a pony is a no brainer and those who chose not to are either wrong or stupid or both and that there are no good reasons for not using one.
Personal choise is a good enough reason either way.

 

[chrisch]

...as long as you plan your dive properly, understand gas management, and are not being stupid. ....

If only all divers were like that I would agree with you

Like you say. A tool. Neither good nor bad, just another tool. Often misused IMHO, but no I agree - not BAD per se.

I can't believe they are mandatory in NJ. What is happening to the US these days???

Dive safe.

Chris

 

[markfm]

Yay -- someone advocating a bit of choice!
(I like my pony, but don't disrespect those who do not want them. Likewise, for me the QD mount works, but I don't mind if someone else really likes a sling. The task loading I don't sweat -- use of a pony, by def, is an OOA -- the task load to take another regulator is not something I would trade against breathing water )
Thank God, water's warming up, time to dive. This weekend I get to help students in a whopping 15' of water -- even though I use my pony very consistently, I actually won't use it for this.

 

[Scubar]

When do I use a Pony Bottle? Hopefully never. I have one and bring it with me on deep dives +100' only used in case emergency like a regulator failure or a buddy has run out of air. The gas supply in my 30 cuft pony is not a part of my dive plan just strictly for emergency.

 

[mexken]

Interestingly hot topic. There are probably as many reasons to use a redundant tank as there are opinions against their use. Just for the record, I have never had a catastophic failure of life saving equipment or been trapped under water (touch wood) and I dive regularly (with a buddy)and no redundant tank. I have however used sling bottles (always slung under my arm so it can be removed easily) for a variety of reasons including solo dives or dives with very low vis (hard to contact a buddy potentially) dives where I would like to have a "richer" mix for my safety/deco stops, to carry argon and dives where there is an overhead hazard that might delay my immediate ascent to the surface at whatever speed. Further, I do plan dives (particularly wreck penetrations) wherein the sling volume is included in extending my range AS WELL AS being available for bailout. Before you say what I know you are thinking I will say that I then manage my gas usage such that there is still sufficient back gas to surface if the pony fails and sufficient pony gas to surface if my main should fail (much the way you would manage "independant" twins). In this case the sling might be 60 cuft. In any case, I never blindly trust a pony but it sure will be nice when I do have a problem provided I maintain the reliability of this redundent gear as well as I do my basic kit. Just another opinion.....like noses, we all have one. Dive safe.

 

[IceBergSlim]

That said, can one of you nay-sayers tell me what actual HARM a pony bottle does, aside from offering some peace of mind? ........... I do not understand at all the need to tell everyone else they shouldn't use one because they are stupid, dangerous, pointless, irrelevant, and/or [insert your choice here].

That and the big-*** snorkle in your avitar make me assume you are joking.

 

[CompuDude]

That and the big-*** snorkle in your avitar make me assume you are joking.

Oh, goodie, another pointless argument!

Because snorkels kill.

 

[Thalassamania]

Is a spare air OK? Is a 6 cube pony OK? How about a 13? 19? 30? I guess we all agree that 40 and up are OK. That seems to be the real question here, not is a backup worth while, but how much back up do you need to make it worth while.

If you're buddy diving and using a "Bingo Air" or "Rock Bottom" concept, then clearly there is no reason to carry a pony.