when do you use a pony bottle?

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gurumasta:
...in all serious, why is it a false sense of security?
The underlying thought goes something like this:

...Lets assume you make a dive plan. Lets assume you follow the dive plan. In that dive plan you plan to begin your ascent with sufficient gas to ensure you can ascend safely, with an appropriate amount of gas remaining in case some unforeseen event occurs. Lets assume, moreover, that you track elapsed time; your gas consumption; and that of your dive buddy. With all those assumptions as a foundation, you will never suddenly realize that you're out of gas to begin with. (You would recognize that you have "issues" before the situation gets to the point of an emergency...) These assumptions provide actual security, instead of false security. The implication is that the only divers who might need a pony bottle, to suddenly turn to in an "aw crap" moment, are those divers who either don't have a plan, aren't following a plan, aren't paying attention to things like time or gas consumption, don't have a buddy or have gotten separated from their buddy, and are basically underwater Opie's who are accidents waiting to happen. In this case pony bottles may not solve the total situation the diver faces. Hence, a "false sense of security"...assuming the diver doesn't do anything else properly to begin with.

(Of course, life is rarely so black or white. Many other issues can be brought to the dialog, including care and feeding of buddies, solo diving, traveling to exotic destinations as a single diver, deep diving, water and rust particles inside rental scuba tanks, and loads of other anecdotal scrotum-trivia. But I think you get the idea.)

Does this make more sense to you?
 
that makes perfect sense, thank you. i guess my question would have to be, what if your primary reg has a problem for some reason and starts freeflowing or your hose gets ripped or tied up etc... would it be worth lugging around a pony on every dive just in case of such a mishap?

thank you all for your input!!
 
gurumasta:
what if your primary reg has a problem for some reason and starts freeflowing or your hose gets ripped or tied up etc... would it be worth lugging around a pony on every dive just in case of such a mishap?

thank you all for your input!!


No, not really. If your hoses get tied up how is a pony gonna help? And you should have dealt with the freeflow before you had to ask.

To me lugging a pony is only good to practice carrying stages. There is no real redundancy (alredy discussed I assume)
 
gurumasta:
...i guess my question would have to be, what if your primary reg has a problem for some reason and starts freeflowing or your hose gets ripped or tied up etc... would it be worth lugging around a pony on every dive just in case of such a mishap?
No, it wouldn't. This is why we dive with buddies.
 
USCG flyer:
I used to always carry a 19cf pony when I was stationed in the Northeast. When I started diving in Alabama I didn't worry about it. Then two weeks ago, while on a shallow dive I had a HP hose blow in pretty murky water. My buddy was right behind me, but if we had gotten separated and were any deeper...it might not have been so good. It's going with me on my dives today.
I've only seen one HP blow. It was my buddy's and we were at the surface so it was just noisy and lots of bubbles. Turned the air off before the tank emptied.

My question: With a blown HP hose how log does the tank last before it's empty. I'd bet quite a while. The HP hose inside diameter is very small, like maybe 1 millimeter.
 
The number of buddies I've met who did not make me feel confident in trusting them with my life has been about 50% of total people I've buddied with so far.

If your hoses get tied up (I presume this means an entanglement) and you need to ditch your rig what are you going to breathe from on your way up or while figuring out what you're tied up on? What if you really do need to do a safety stop? ( I do feel that it's "black and white" to sling rather than back mount a pony for this very reason.)

Where'd your buddy go? No buddy? Just you? Hmmm maybe redundancy isn't such a bad thing. Shore divers can't always lug doubles. Old farts with bad backs can't always dive doubles.

I'm learning to sling and deploy a 30cf. bottle. It really did "disappear" under my arm so easily that now I'm possibly regretting not getting a 40 as some board members advised.

I'm not going to use my bottle to extend any responsible pre-dive planning but Murphy's plan and mine may not agree.

I'm a relatively new diver and board member and I've never entered into a debate here before, but I'm honestly not seeing the anti-pony/bailout stupidity a lot of folks here
disdain. I dive with several divers who have ponies and we all agree that they are a worthwhile tool for the diving we do and hope to do (future staging perhaps).

Doc Intrepid's point about things not always being so black and white and outlining scenarios where a pony may be a good idea is one the best balanced opinions I've seen.

I agree, definitely if you can/are using doubles it's a superior method to have redundancy but not everyone can or will be diving doubles. Hopefully all divers will plan responsibly. Hopefully, eventually I'll meet enough "team oriented" or superior buddies that I can always get a dive together with them on short notice. In Seattle, Portland,San Diego or another major city that may be relatively easy but for now it isn't where I live.

In 25 yrs. of boating, self sufficiency has save me many times from inconvenience to life and death situations. I can't help but feel stupid NOT being as self sufficient underwater as above it.
What can it hurt (provided I drill and practice) and it certainly has the potential to help.
 
40+ years of diving without a pony, never had an out of gas incident, never had an equiptment failure incident, never been entangled. Will one of those things happen in the future, it's possible but unlikely because I am aware that it could and I so I avoid putting myself in situation where it could happen and I accept from my experience what I feel is a small risk.
 
Capt., Please understand that I respect your experience and don't intend anything personal.

The fact is that single tank catastrophic failures are extremely rare but so are commercial airline crashes but I still would rather not be a passanger on "that particular plane" if I could have knowingly done something to avoid it or provide for a bail out with a parachute.

Doc from Catalina has had his tank's dip tube clog.

Others have had tank neck o rings blow in front of their very eyes. Their pick up buddies weren't attentive enough or calm enough to be of assistance.


I'm at a stage in my life where with retirement, I'm finally getting to travel and enjoy life more and the age where mortality is more "real" than it used to be, I want to insure I've done everything I can to provide for my preservation underwater.

I don't want to be kicking myself wishing I'd have had that pony bottle should I really need/want it, instead of allowing myself to have been talked out of it.

I'm by no means saying that a pony or any philosophy is right for all divers. But I hate to have a viable lifesaving tool completely dismissed by anyone, with one short sentence.
(xiSkiGuy's quote.)
Life support is important enough for consideration and discussion in my view ,by both sides of a philosophy especially when the original poster is seeking life support information regarding when it would be "right" to try or use a pony and several very experienced divers on the board have had or witnessed single tank failures.

If they know they're going to dive doubles soon then that's the better way to go, for redundancy, in my opinion as well as most board members here.

Wishing you continued safe and enjoyable diving.
Jim
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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