What's the point of a long hose?

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I have a question concerning this... if the OOA diver grabs your reg from your mouth unexpectedly, don't you get pulled even closer with the hose still around your head?

I though about that and asked in an above post. I slept on it and think that it would happen if you had the excess hose tucked in your cumber belt or the excess hose would just cycle through and you'd be alright.

Anyone willing to clarify?


I liked the single file air share and surfacing under boat traffic examples.

The rest are subject to opinion. I'm always thinking the worst case scenario when it comes to OOA.
If you lose grip of an OOA diver and start rocketing to the surface while OOA sinks, long hose or not you're still separated and I don't think long hose is going to help keep that reg in anymore than a short hose. You may just get a few extra seconds to react.

The kelp crawl VS underwater air share is not something I would not do personally. You can always get through kelp, it just takes time. And if someone is OOA it's safer to kelp crawl.

I personally wouldn't share air to travel underwater a bit more. But then again I've never done a boat dive in heavy current, so I don't think I can really give an unbias opinion on that.


This question really started up because the only reason I heard of equipping a long hose was so that you could keep some distance from an OOA diver.
Given a calm OOA diver it may be beneficial to have one under certain circumstances.
That's my new opinion now. Although I'm not sure if I'll switch to one anytime soon. :D
 
I have a question concerning this... if the OOA diver grabs your reg from your mouth unexpectedly, don't you get pulled even closer with the hose still around your head?

No.

Mostly because a true OOA situation in a trained and equipped team is not an issue and gas sharing is not done in a panic. Remember that the first priority for a trained diver is gas management. Running out of air "unexpectedly" is not the sign of a trained, aware, and squared away diver. Also, the configuration/routing of the long hose means it can slip free easily with a slight "duck" of the head.

In more than 18 years of diving a long hose, I have only once been in a situation where an OOA diver (a sport diver who follow our team into a wreck) grabbed at my reg in a panic and it did not result in me being pulled closer to him or being strangled.
 
I'm talking about the long hose for your primary reg. that ranges from 5-7'. Anything longer than the standard hose length.

I understand that people use this for air share emergencies.
But what I have heard so far is that divers who use the long hose, say they use it so you can keep your distance from those you're sharing air with. (to be honest, I only remember two references to this and no other reasons)

I was wondering why you would want to keep your distance from a diver you're sharing air with.

- From my point of view if your sharing air with some one, you might as well be tied to them. If they are panicky and holding onto your reg, you can't really swim away from them.
I think a shorter hose would be more ideal because it provides less of an entanglement possibility (which I already believe isn't much of a risk).

If you're sharing air with someone I believe you should take control and be right next to them. Grab a hold of them in a do-si-do and perform an ascent as safely as possible. It's a lot better than being dragged by the hose around the wide open ocean.

Any input in the matter? What are the big advantages of a long hose that I'm overlooking?

Having a diver panicky during an air share is more the exception than the rule ... even with fairly new divers. What induces panic is a diver who is faced with a problem for which they either feel they have no control or see no possible good outcome.

Giving a diver some control over the situation and showing them a good potential outcome often has enough of a calming effect that it increases the liklihood for a succesful conclusion to the issue. The long hose offers a degree of freedom that allows the sharing diver to participate in their own "rescue".

The only people I have ever heard suggest entanglement as a liability with a long hose are those who have never used one. When worn properly, it is less of an entanglement hazard than a standard recreational rig ... since it eliminates that big loop that typically sticks off to your right on a standard regulator configuration.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
No.

Mostly because a true OOA situation in a trained and equipped team is not an issue and gas sharing is not done in a panic. Remember that the first priority for a trained diver is gas management. Running out of air "unexpectedly" is not the sign of a trained, aware, and squared away diver. Also, the configuration/routing of the long hose means it can slip free easily with a slight "duck" of the head.

In more than 18 years of diving a long hose, I have only once been in a situation where an OOA diver (a sport diver who follow our team into a wreck) grabbed at my reg in a panic and it did not result in me being pulled closer to him or being strangled.

Yea i agree about the unexpected OOA situation, but this is often brought up as an argument for long hoses, which I couldn't quite understand.
Thanks for clarifying what happens in this situation though :)
 
I though about that and asked in an above post. I slept on it and think that it would happen if you had the excess hose tucked in your cumber belt or the excess hose would just cycle through and you'd be alright.

Anyone willing to clarify?

When the hose is stowed in the 'Hog' fashion (around the neck) it is deployable by simply ducking the chin. It slides off easily. That is stage 1. It gives approx the same length of hose as a regular AAS set-up.

Once the OOA diver has secured the regulator, begun breathing and calmed, the donor is then able to disengage the remainder of the hose to deploy it at full length.

I make a point of practicing air donation 'in anger'. i.e. in the worst case scenario, where the reciever is panicked and/or air-starved... and may be brutal in securing the reg. Never had problems under those circumstances.

I liked the single file air share and surfacing under boat traffic examples....The rest are subject to opinion. I'm always thinking the worst case scenario when it comes to OOA.

I based my examples on personal experience coupled with reported real life incidents.

Personal Experience: teaching OW and Rescue divers AAS drills and noting their relative capacity to ascend under control whilst sharing air.

Reported Incidents: a number of diver deaths reported in the BSAC annual accident reports that reflect this scenario.

If you lose grip of an OOA diver and start rocketing to the surface while OOA sinks, long hose or not you're still separated and I don't think long hose is going to help keep that reg in anymore than a short hose. You may just get a few extra seconds to react.

The point of the long hose is that the divers can ascend as individuals, within a 'generous' proximity to each other and without direct contact ('death grip'). Under those circumstances, the divers suffer less stress and are able to better manage their buoyancy on ascent.

When sharing air from a conventional AAS, with a 'death grip', the divers have to closely coordinate their buoyancy. It is easy for one diver to become negative, whilst the other compensates with excessive buoyancy. That works only up until they happen to become separated (losing the 'death grip').

The PADI style 'Roman Handshake' is particularly poor for this. It relies on both divers sacrificing the use of one hand for the entire duration of the ascent... and having to manage their buoyancy with the other hand. If any other problem occurs (i.e. flooded mask - likely when in such close proximity) then they either have to abandon their buoyancy control, or their 'death grip' or both... to deal with that problem.

Makes sense?

This question really started up because the only reason I heard of equipping a long hose was so that you could keep some distance from an OOA diver.
Given a calm OOA diver it may be beneficial to have one under certain circumstances.

Any air-sharing procedure should start with the donor ensuring that the recipient is calm before ascending. It's an important step that doesn't recieve the attention that it should in training scenarios.

If the recipient cannot be calmed, then it becomes more than an AAS ascent... and moves firmly into the realms of a full-blown rescue scenario. I also teach this in rescue class... where either active or passive panic by an OOA diver means that the donor has to take complete responsibility for the ascent. It can be simular to raising an unconsious diver...and requires a simular process.
 
That all makes perfect sense Andy =]
I'm glad you teach rescues the way you do.
I haven't seen the PADI 'Roman Handshake', but I can imagine it's not very helpful.
 
I would also add the long hose is part of a system, the other parts are the necklace mounted octo, no snorkel fixed permanently to you mask and regular practice. One item by itself does not work as well as the entire system together.

With the necklace octo, you merely tilt your head down to grab the octo from under your chin. With practice this can be done without hands. In either case, this facilitates the long hose sliding off over year head (remember, no snorkel) without much action on your part.
 
@fisheater: In the situation you described given a long hose, are you sure that sharing air with the OOA diver and swimming back to the boat under the kelp canopy is the best decision? My concern would be what could happen if the two of you got separated underwater during the air-share. As you pointed out, swimming under a thick kelp canopy may block direct ascent to the surface.
If you are traveling at 15' under water with kelp overhead you will move fairly quickly through the kelp field until it is clear to ascend. At 15' of depth I doubt anyone couldn't make it to the surface with no air in their lungs, since it is only a few seconds away. Have you ever seen a kelp canopy that you couldn't create an opening? Maybe in a movie? I would venture to say you could claw your way up the kelp pulling it down and you to the surface fairly easily, no matter how thick it is. Then again maybe SoCal has thicker kelp than NorCal?

In that situation I would surface and chat with the other diver, then devise a plan for returning to the boat, either by submerging or doing the kelp crawl. Part of that planning process would be how we would swim with the donor in the rear, or side by side if possible, and that the OOA diver needs to hang onto the long hose at all times. There definitely would be a dive debrief whether the OOA was caused by gear failure or stupidity.
 
BTW, in my situation there was a debrief. No gear issues. Just didn't check his air until i signaled him to

Never dove with him again. 'Nuff said.
 
The kelp crawl VS underwater air share is not something I would not do personally. You can always get through kelp, it just takes time. And if someone is OOA it's safer to kelp crawl.

If your buddy is truly OOA and is panicking or really on the verge, a direct ascent may be the best thing even if it's under a kelp canopy, it's probably a judgment call depending on the specific circumstances. But if everyone is calm, a short swim of 30-60 seconds is often all you'll need to get to a clearing in the kelp cover that makes surface logistics SOOO much easier and less stressful on whole.

On a related note, during our dive last weekend,we ran what I'll essentially call an extended drill involving a long (~15 minute) air-share swim under the kelp; made much easier using a long hose. I could even shoot a little video of it while sharing: long hose air share swim in kelp
 
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