If you use a long hose configuration...

[Racer_X]

I've been looking at this set up for a while. I like the idea of primary donate (longer hose) with an octopus on a necklace. In an emergency, the person that needs air wants the one in the other diver's mouth. It makes sense to give that one away, reduce panic, and grab the octopus. In the event of a clingy panicked diver, the octo is close enough to get into the mouth with limited arm movement/mobility.

Where I'm getting hung up (sorry) is the GUE model I keep seeing that does wrap the hose around the neck. That seems to invalidate the whole thing, as a panicked diver won't wait the half-second or so necessary to unwind it. it seems far more likely that the diver will grab for it, and there's an even chance of the non-panicked diver not getting their head out of the way in time. That seems like a bad day.

 

[inquis]

@Racer_X if you're fairly horizontal (which you should be to avoid stirring up the bottom), the long hose will easily slide up the back of your head if someone steals it. (That's assuming you don't have the awareness to see them coming.)

 

[Pavao]

.Where I'm getting hung up (sorry) is the GUE model I keep seeing that does wrap the hose around the neck. That seems to invalidate the whole thing, as a panicked diver won't wait the half-second or so necessary to unwind it. it seems far more likely that the diver will grab for it, and there's an even chance of the non-panicked diver not getting their head out of the way in time. That seems like a bad day.

The unnecessary convolution created in the OPs video has nothing to do with the hose routing, it still is “wrapped” behind the neck, at least he hasn’t come up with yet another less than ideal “solution” to another non-existent “problem”. The. “solution” proposed here is to address the excess loop (easily dealt with by everybody else).

It seems you’re suggesting that your long hose comes down from waist straight to your mouth, that certainly is an odd way of doing it, can’t even imagine what that looks like with reg in your mouth, do you have one of those second stages with LP hose routed from 90°? What does the excess loop looks like, comes down to your knees?

Half-second isn’t enough time for you, how fast do you expect to do things underwater?

 

[Nemrod]

I've been looking at this set up for a while. I like the idea of primary donate (longer hose) with an octopus on a necklace. In an emergency, the person that needs air wants the one in the other diver's mouth. It makes sense to give that one away, reduce panic, and grab the octopus. In the event of a clingy panicked diver, the octo is close enough to get into the mouth with limited arm movement/mobility.

Where I'm getting hung up (sorry) is the GUE model I keep seeing that does wrap the hose around the neck. That seems to invalidate the whole thing, as a panicked diver won't wait the half-second or so necessary to unwind it. it seems far more likely that the diver will grab for it, and there's an even chance of the non-panicked diver not getting their head out of the way in time. That seems like a bad day.

For one thing, you should be horizontal in the water. On the odd chance the long hose wants to snag on your head, which it does not, just dip/duck your head. The hose will come free.

Exception, not an OOA donation, in the Red Sea, being hurried aboard the RIB, the crew grabbed me by my regulator which I had removed from my mouth to ask them for a hand on my camera rig. They grabbed me one by the regulator and the other by my bad arm and yanked me into the RIB leaving a burn mark from the braided hose friction on my neck, knocking my mask off and a sore arm. I was in the midst of removing my rig so as to make it easier for me to scootch over the tube which I could do quite well, I just needed help with the camera hand off! Y'all trying to lynch me or something, not sure that translated, all good.

BTW, the necklaced regulator is usually referred to as the secondary regulator and not an octopus. Typically it is either the same as or essentially of the same performance as the primary on the long hose and does not have the confusing yellow cover.

It is said, over and over, that the OOA diver is going for the regulator in the donor/buddie's mouth. I do not know that as truth. On the couple of occasions I have donated air neither diver was truly panicked and they reached for my yellow octopus signaling to me with the finger across the throat. Well, there is another time, now that I think about it, pre-octopus era, we buddy breathed to the surface and the one time in my life as a diver I went OOA and again prior to common use of the octopus regulator, I buddy breathed with my wife. And even though I was becoming quite stressed I did not attack my wife and yank her teeth out. Saying all that, I am a long hose convert, well, most of the time.

 

[Racer_X]

Appreciate all the feedback, thank you.

Again, the scenario that gives me pause is a panicked diver approaching. If I am horizontal the problem exists if I am approached from below or above. If I am vertical the problem exists if I am approached from the back or the front. The only angles where it's not a problem is if we are perpendicular to each other at the same depth. 'cause if they approach my feet, well, they aren't very bright to approach my feet if they are looking for air.

Given the scenario is a panicked diver, there are precisely 0 seconds before it's ripped from my mouth and yanked to theirs. "how much time do you need" is an irrelevancy because said diver won't wait.

I'm somewhat unfortunate in that I don't have a regular buddy - where I would be less concerned. It's this issue that makes me prefer solo diving, a rare option in most ops, so I'm stuck with rentabuddies of varying stripes.

I've yet to be in a scenario where I've had to donate at all, yet as we all know scuba is about risk management, so I'm doing the math. I continue to appreciate your views.

 

[Nemrod]

You could then just stay with the standard system. Accepted by the majority of divers, taught by almost all of the ABC agencies and works fine as long as you are not trying to single file out of a cave. The OP created a clever personal preference solution to a non-existent problem and ran afoul of those who guard the margins of the one true path to scuba bliss. Some could say, and have, that aside from cave diving and other penetrations, the long hose primary donation is a solution to a non-existent problem .

 

[rjack321]

Some could say, and have, that aside from cave diving and other penetrations, the long hose primary donation is a solution to a non-existent problem .

I've seen the outcome of a highly stressed diver receiving a non-working regulator. It pushed them further into panic and they drowned. The only for sure working 100% regulator is the one in the donatees mouth

 

[Chrisk919]

I've seen the outcome of a highly stressed diver receiving a non-working regulator. If pushed them further into panic and they drowned. The only for sure working 100% regulator is the one in the donatees mouth

I'm not arguing against a long-hose primary donate (I'm a convert)... but I'm (morbidly?) interested in the scenario of how a 'safe second/octopus' isn't 100% functioning? I used to breathe off mine on safety stops just to be sure it was working, but maybe that's the issue - ignored gear and a split mouthpiece.

 

[EFX]

Well, that is the issue - ignored gear. I wish every diver had your dedication to testing their equipment. I routinely on every dive at the beginning of the dive switch to my alternate and breath at least 30 seconds from it. If it doesn't work correctly I abort the dive. You can't prevent a malfunction of your reg but you can prevent a fatality by testing your alternate reg on every dive. If you do this and you're an octo diver you'll save your buddy's life. If you're a primary donate diver you'll save your own life.

 

[Nemrod]

I'm not arguing against a long-hose primary donate (I'm a convert)... but I'm (morbidly?) interested in the scenario of how a 'safe second/octopus' isn't 100% functioning? I used to breathe off mine on safety stops just to be sure it was working, but maybe that's the issue - ignored gear and a split mouthpiece.

Same here. If me or my wife were to be rigged with a standard octopus we would test it pre-dive and usually switch to it during safety stop. There is no reason that the octopus second would be any less 100% than a necklaced secondary. This is myth. And further, not all octopus seconds are some sort of low end second stage, a Legend octopus, Atomic octopus, G250 (if we must on a yellow hose) are no less capable just because they are attached to a yellow hose or have a yellow cover. If yellow anywhere at all. And what is good for the goose is good for the gander, a traditional octopus secondary can be necklaced so it is visible to the OOA diver and available quickly to either diver. Instead of putting the bungee necklace under the zip tie, use a fisherman slip knot. It releases with an easy tug and is available for pre-dive and deco/safety stop switch over.

And no need to try and convince me, I converted to long hose donation long ago. Most of the time but not all the time. I agree that it is generally a better donation system.