What's the deal with the "Advanced Nitrox" certification?

[battles2a5]

Advanced Nitrox and Deco are typically joined together because one faciliates the other. Deco procedures introduces the overhead, and advanced nitrox gives some tools to manage the overhead more effectively. However, it also introduced some additional in-water risks and planning requirements;

1) You are now switching gases, so you need to understand gas switching protocols (whichever ones you choose to adopt)
2) You are playing with higher F02's, so overall P02 is much more sensitive to depth change, which means that bouyancy control and situational awareness become much more important.
3) You're PO2 threshold increases to 1.6 on deco, which burns your CNS clock a lot faster, so you have one more factor to add into your dive planning, especially when doing repetitive deep dives

The concepts introduced in Adv Nitrox will follow you throughout your deco training when you are using 1, 2, 3, or more deco gases just like basic air/nitrox decompression concepts will follow you through advanced trimix. I think it is a very important class for anyone planning to pursue technical diving. Just run some profiles for a deep dive w/ and w/o deco gases and you will see what an important tool it is.

If you are concerned about the task loading, I would skip on these classes until you think you are ready. I don't think a recreational trimix class will help you with much outside of adding a little more discipline to your planning and diving. I think the time will be better spent working on the foundations and working on introducing tasking exercises.

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

The concepts introduced in Adv Nitrox will follow you throughout your deco training when you are using 1, 2, 3, or more deco gases just like basic air/nitrox decompression concepts will follow you through advanced trimix. I think it is a very important class for anyone planning to pursue technical diving.

We are in 100% complete agreement on this.

If you are concerned about the task loading, I would skip on these classes until you think you are ready. I don't think a recreational trimix class will help you with much outside of adding a little more discipline to your planning and diving. I think the time will be better spent working on the foundations and working on introducing tasking exercises.

We are also in agreement on this, I am taking GUE-F when the season re-opens, and practicing skills once or twice a week until then. I don't know if it is the absolute 100% best path to foundations, but up here in Ontario people speak well of Dan MacKay.

In the mean time, I'd like to do some more bookish study, so I was wondering which of these two would be a good option to pursue.

 

[DANM]

i just earned my padi rescue diver cert this weekend, i'm doing advanced nitrox and deco procedures together for the reasons everyone is discussing through an IANTD instructor in Jan, then i will be continuing on through trimix, wreck penitration ect. i live in florida and there are a lot of deep wrecks here, the guy i spearfish does a lot of these tech dives and that is what i'm interested in, from my understanding with trimix at deeper depths 130'+ you don't get so much tunnel vision, or narced to bad either. good luck with whatever path you take, but seems like you should do both advanced nitrox and deco procedures togther to get the understanding and benifits.
and by the way we have a cold front down here it is only going to be in the 70's today ansd i'm diving in the gulf on sunday, should be approx 72 degrees burrrr, i will actually need a wetsuit. later, dan

 

[JeffG]

In the mean time, I'd like to do some more bookish study, so I was wondering which of these two would be a god option to pursue.

For a more god like experience you should look at the karma sutra.

 

[Blackwood]

based on the manual alone, I can't see a whole lot in the TDI Advanced Nitrox course that wasn't covered pretty fully in the basic Nitrox

Yup.

The TDI books are easy to read with their size 40 font and elementary school limericks, but they really don't have a whole heck of a lot of information to offer.

The IANTD books on the other hand are very poorly edited and often hard to read, but are full to the brim of good data.

I asked TDI about this... and here's the reason.

They see that publishing tables with accelerated deco is a big liability. Your instructor will cover procedures in accelerated deco, and TDI (in that book as I recall) recommends using V-Planner or other planning software.

(hope this helps)

Seems pretty wishy-washy to me. "Here's some info that is best used when applied towards decompression, but if you want to learn about that go buy a software package written by someone else."

 

[Jimmer]

We are also in agreement on this, I am taking GUE-F when the season re-opens, and practicing skills once or twice a week until then. I don't know if it is the absolute 100% best path to foundations, but up here in Ontario people speak well of Dan MacKay.

Hey Reg. Dan MacKay has a great reputation, and from what I've heard, I dont think you'd be dissapointed with his class. Just curious if you've talked to Matt at Dan's Dive shop about his intro to tech program? I did it through him and was quite please with it. He was willing to take extra time to work with students, give them time to go practice skills. Overall a good experience.

I'm now registered for his Tech 1 class this spring, and need all the in water time I can get, so if you know of any decent shore dive spots over the winter time, pm me and I'd love to get some time in the water.

Jim

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

'm now registered for his Tech 1 class this spring, and need all the in water time I can get, so if you know of any decent shore dive spots over the winter time, pm me and I'd love to get some time in the water.

Sadly, all the people I know hit Humber Bay in Toronto on a weekly basis for practice. While I agree that Open Water is ideal, I am not convinced that I can use E. Coli for my PADI Fish Identification Specialty.

So for now at least, I am in the pool working my hose drills and back finning :-S

 

[Steve SDI/TDI HQ]

Tough question to ask while simultaneously avoiding agency debates, but here's the specific thing I want to know: Some agencies offer this course as a stepping stone towards deco diving. So you do advanced nitrox, deco procedures, and presumably trimix if you don't want to be stoned to the bone on deep air and killing yourself at depth.

But what good is advanced nitrox on its own? Am I missing something, or would you not use greater than EAN40 for anything except deco? I guess I'm wondering whether it has any value as a stand-alone course or if it really is just a piece of a bigger puzzle.

Almost entirely -- but not 100 percent -- a function of Closed-Circuit Rebreather Diving.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

TDI offers Advanced Nitrox and Deco Procedures which taken together then certifies you to depths of 150' and allows the use of two deco gasses. That made more sense to me than the IANTD 1 gas limit. TDI then lets you expand that with either Extended Range (deep air to 180' - which even I think is pretty stupid) or the much more common Extended Range/Basic Trimix course that is essentially a normoxic trimix course certifying you to 200'. From their you can do the advanced hypoxic trimix course.

I just finished up TDI Adv Nitrox/Deco Procedures this past Aug and it only covers one deco gas. They don't currently add a second deco gas until Trimix. Maybe that varies by instructor.

 

[Steve SDI/TDI HQ]

I asked TDI about this... and here's the reason.

They see that publishing tables with accelerated deco is a big liability. Your instructor will cover procedures in accelerated deco, and TDI (in that book as I recall) recommends using V-Planner or other planning software.

(hope this helps)

Who did you ask Howard?

As far as accelerated vs optimized decompression, this may help clarify some terms...

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