What's the best Wrist Mount Dive Computer for both tech and recreatonal diving & why?

[MechDiver]

Scuba once bubbled...
Sorry for the confusion, I did not mention the specific scenerio this was mentioned in. Although many others are possible.

Here it is.

You come out of the cave, or your going through passages in a cave, all of sudden you check for your buddy and he's not there.

How long do you have to look for him, depending on depth, before your chances of surviving decrease greatly due to insufficient gas to complete a possible major deco obligation? How much of an additional deco obligation will you incur? How much will you have to violate?

IMO you're setting up a question that can't be answered, at least with the information given. This type of dive would be planned in fairly great detail, and there are way too many variables to make a simple answer.

A computer cannot "project". Only a reasoning human brain with the correct training could take this particular problem, with a certain set of circumstances, and make a "best case" decision on how to proceed.

Note I do not have cave training, but I think the scenerio is wide enought I can comment.

Phil

 

[Scuba]

Thanks for the info MechDiver,

I realize that it appear at present no computer is able to make forward projections as is possible through the use of mental tracking, such as is used by DIR, for example.

I realize this is a highly speculative topic. Not so much, in my opinion, one of computers tracking vs. mental tracking. But bringing out and discussing both approaches. And then a general discussion of the issues encountered when the need for these forward looking projections are made. A discussion I have not seen before.

 

[JeffG]

Scuba once bubbled...
...You come out of the cave, or your going through passages in a cave, all of sudden you check for your buddy and he's not there.

How long do you have to look for him, depending on depth, before your chances of surviving decrease greatly due to insufficient gas to complete a possible major deco obligation? How much of an additional deco obligation will you incur? How much will you have to violate?

When was the last time you saw your buddy? (This dive is getting better by the minute)

10 sec, 20 sec, 3 min?

That will tell you ~how far back he is, and if you know your air consumption rate that can answer how long you could look.

Now, I do not have any technical dive training, and the dive you are describing is a technical dive and I do not know their procedures for a situation like this.

Also Which questions do you want answered

When viewed in light of the fact that this estimate is likely to need on the fly real time adjustments (possible stress will increase your gas consumption as an example) and a computer will display where you currently stand at any one point, how important is it to know this information before hand and how is it useful

or

How long do you have to look for him, depending on depth, before your chances of surviving decrease greatly due to insufficient gas to complete a possible major deco obligation? How much of an additional deco obligation will you incur? How much will you have to violate?

 

[Uncle Pug]

... just some generalizations without an attempt to address your scenario directly:

Take playing the piano for an example.

It is possible to have it played electronically for you these days by simply pushing a button corresponding to a certain tune.

It is also possible to have more of your *own talent* in the mix by pressing certain keys that trigger rythme and cords as well as melody lines.

Some folks take lessons and can actually read music. They sit down at a primitive (non-electronic) piano and play the music as it is written... some better than others.

And then there are folks who play the piano *by ear*.... they don't need sheet music... they just *think* the music and somehow their fingers make it happen... in fact if they tried paying attention to what their fingers were doing it wouldn't work.

Others... combine both the ability to *read* music and play instinctively by *ear*.

And then there was Beethoven.

Now there are those who have learned to keep track of their dive parameters in such a way that calculations like you envisage happen almost automatically. They are the folks who can tell you not only what their SPG reads before looking at it... but also what their buddy's SPG reads. They know how much time they have and what to do if they stay deeper longer.

It may be that not everyone is able to learn to do this. It is most certainly the case that those who rely upon a computer to manage their dive will never learn to do this.

Yes there are computers out there that can be *re-programmed* on the fly... but while you are putzing around trying to remember how to do that... precious time is ticking away. An emergency is not the time to be playing with your computational device.

If you know how to play by ear you just go and do the job that needs to be done.

 

[Rezqdiver]

I am no expert but as a Public Safety Diver I can tell you the equipment we have chosen, as far as computers go I dive with 2, both have the same algorhythym, one has an easy setup the other not so simple, but thorough. The main computer is a Cochran Navy integrated air, the other is Suunto Mosquito, both have their drawbacks the Mosquito is poor on backlighting but otherwise a reliable backup. The Cochran is great, and we swear by them, a little pricey, but how much is a life worth. My best advice is to dive with a computer you feel comfortable with, all the bells and whistles in the world won't save you if you don't know the basics. We keep a laminated copy of the tables with every diver on every dive. Know them and know how to use them, don't become computer dependent. Lastly but certainly not least......Plan your Dive.....Dive your Plan!!!!

 

[Scuba]

UP,

Point well made and well understood.

Uncle Pug once bubbled...
It may be that not everyone is able to learn to do this. It is most certainly the case that those who rely upon a computer to manage their dive will never learn to do this.

I think this is where part of the disagreement originates.

I use the instruments in my car, pilots in their planes, astronauts in their spacecraft. Do we rely on these instrumenst. Yes, to a certain extent. Soley, no. They are aids to assist with the task at hand. since they are able to provide us with information that otherwise would not be possible for us to have at hand, if we were not to use them.

Are the benefits they provide worth the trade-off in some loss of awareness?

Are the benefits of awareness worth the trade-off in some loss of capability?

A complex equation with many variables to be considered.

Some opt for one instrument over the other. Some use them well. Some do not. Some would be better off using (X)

Some find an acceptable and useful medium in the use of computers - or __________ fill in the blank.

 

[Epinephelus]

Com pu tors????
Commm pyooo tores????
We don't neeed no steeeenking computors!
I tote one, though, just for the warm fuzzies.
E. itajara

 

[MechDiver]

Epinephelus once bubbled...
Com pu tors????
Commm pyooo tores????
We don't neeed no steeeenking computors!
I tote one, though, just for the warm fuzzies.
E. itajara

That would be the Dell desktop with 20" monitor and DVD drive?
They do work well for cutting tables...

MD

 

[djhall]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...
... just some generalizations without an attempt to address your scenario directly:

Take playing the piano for an example.

It is possible to have it played electronically for you these days by simply pushing a button corresponding to a certain tune.

It is also possible to have more of your *own talent* in the mix by pressing certain keys that trigger rythme and cords as well as melody lines.

Some folks take lessons and can actually read music. They sit down at a primitive (non-electronic) piano and play the music as it is written... some better than others.

And then there are folks who play the piano *by ear*.... they don't need sheet music... they just *think* the music and somehow their fingers make it happen... in fact if they tried paying attention to what their fingers were doing it wouldn't work.

Others... combine both the ability to *read* music and play instinctively by *ear*.

And then there was Beethoven.

Now there are those who have learned to keep track of their dive parameters in such a way that calculations like you envisage happen almost automatically. They are the folks who can tell you not only what their SPG reads before looking at it... but also what their buddy's SPG reads. They know how much time they have and what to do if they stay deeper longer.

It may be that not everyone is able to learn to do this. It is most certainly the case that those who rely upon a computer to manage their dive will never learn to do this.

Yes there are computers out there that can be *re-programmed* on the fly... but while you are putzing around trying to remember how to do that... precious time is ticking away. An emergency is not the time to be playing with your computational device.

If you know how to play by ear you just go and do the job that needs to be done.

UP, I'm surprised. For someone who I thought usually limited computer related posts to the infamous, "computers rot your brain," you certainly have raised some excellent comparisons here. I have a related question for you. To use your music analogy, what about people who either have no talent for music or who do not practice enough to ever become very proficient? Put directly, what about people who simply don't have the talent to estimate, track, and correlate constant changes in gas, depth, and time, or who simply do not dive often enough to become proficient at this rather complex skill? It appears these people have two choices: 1) limit their dives to simple square table or stepped wheel profiles, or 2) use a computer to track the variables they cannot track well. Do you think it is appropriate for these people to use dive computers for assistance, or do you believe they should limit themselves to simple square table dives?

 

[Jackknife]

"If the shoe fits wear it", like they say! You have a choice, dive with air integration or not, but if you if like both computers, or no computer at all. That would work out fine too. It's totally up to the individual and what they would like to achieve from their type of diving.