What's the best Wrist Mount Dive Computer for both tech and recreatonal diving & why?

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Scuba once bubbled...
How often do you guys encounter the need for these forward projections in emergency situations where an accurate estimate is critical. (meaning there isn't plenty of leadway) Accidents happen.
In a recreational setting... we don't have this happen... but it really isn't a big deal... if something came up and we needed to *deviate* from the *plan* we just adjust our profile accordingly.. and in our case if that meant adding extra time to one of our stops then we would do that... but we are really talking about dives that are well within what would be call the NDL anyway.

If you recall any of the dives that I have listed here in threads you will note that figured as a square profile some of them were waaaay over the "line".... but in reality as the dives unfolded we kept them well within the "line"! And even if we had at any point needed to go over the "line" we would have just adjusted the rest of our dive to bring us back into the "safe zone."

I put "line" in quotes because, like Dr. Deco, I maintain that there is no real line... the NDL is not a knife edge event that you can cross over.... it is more of a probability curve.
 
Scuba once bubbled...
I was approaching it not with the intention of making them match. But from the perspective of having some type of guideline if the need to make a forward projection arose, (going deeper to help buddy). considering that a ballpark figure of time and depth might be better than none.
>snip<
And I'll ask again, how do those of you who use computers handle it.
I'm tempted to write a long answer - but I'll try to cut to the essentials - I comply with the most conservative profile, gas supply allowing. So far that's always been my own calcs - except once when my stupid SUUNTO switched itself from 32 to 21% Nitrox between the time I checked it before putting on my fins and the time I hit the water. Had to add a couple minutes over my plan at 15' to clear the computer - a minor inconvenience but a good illustration.
Rick
 
various points:

Scuba, you should read a bunch of threads in the Dr. Deco forum paying special attention to what Dr. Deco writes. He is a great resource and his answers have helped me a lot.

UP's method of working of maximum depth and time and designing a series of stops around it sounds a lot like the way most of the deco planning software works. I would expect that he has memorized a series of profiles from which to work up plans on the fly.

When UP says that all dives are deco dives I think he means that you can't come rocketing up to the surface with no weights and a BC full of air, even when a computer or the tables do not indicate a deco stop, without greatly incresing the risk of DCS. Deco is happening during the 30 ft/min ascent, the safety stop and at the surface. It might be better to say no-stop limits than NDL.

I can give a real example of computer misuse. Two weeks ago at CCV one of the divers on my boat decides to to a bounce to 150' for his first dive. He comes up to meet the the rest of us at 60' or so after 10 minutes and continues at 60' for about another 15 minutes. The rest of the dive is fairly shallow, he does a safety stop and is out after 45 minutes or so. We have a short surface interval of 25 minutes and they drop us off at Newman's wall to swim back to CCV. I am at 50', he is way down there. At lunch he said he went to 148' and that his Vyper went right into the deco stop mode. He thought at the time that it would clear as he ascended, but the total stop time kept increasing until it was 15 minutes. This diver came very close to having a life threatening problem because he chose to dive what was certain to be a deco dive without any planning and with no idea of how long his ceiling would be.
 
Northeastwrecks once bubbled...


Well??? Which ones can do that? Can they handle SAC calculations, etc?

Abyss Explorer and VR3. The preplanned profile software will take SAC into account when planning for gas consumption, but, no, they will not recompute gas needed during the dive. Thats why, IMO, they are neither needed nor warrented for deco diving.

I mearly wanted to state that there were computers designed to do "serious" (read trimix) staged deco dives. Whether they are useful or not is up to the user. To me, they are not.

Phil
 
Uncle Pug once bubbled...

That was a frank admission that we don't always plan our dive and dive our plan in the sense that we say... ok we are going to go down to such~n~such and stay for such~n~such and then come up to such~n~such and stay for such~n~such and then....

You folks need a computer to do these weenie recreational NDL limit dives?


I do the same thing but didn't want to admit it :D

Although I don't have UP's adversion to computers, since starting tech training a couple years ago, I have been really paying attention to what I have used them for. It always amounts to the same things: depth and time.

I know how long I can dive at some depth with the tank I am diving, I know how long the divers I am with can dive with what they are using, and NEVER in several hundred dives have I ever touched NDL's. Note the use of "tank" above, not "tanks".

A computer, to most people, means an expensive bottom timer. Oh, I have 3 for sale BTW :wink:

As UP so aply said, "why do you guys need them for the weenie rec dives you are doing???" I would change the 'you' to 'we'.

Phil
 
We're never going to solve this issue since it comes down to, heaven forbid, what is important to you. Not whether your brain will rot or you'll live to tell about it.

This is a tool for specific uses and applications, with specific requirements for proper use - not a panacea. Then again, what is? I won't comment.

For a single rec. dive, a lot of this deco profile tracking is immaterial, whether mental or computer, since your gas supply is most likely to dictate your course of action. However, sound diving practice does apply. (slow ascents, stops, limiting bouncing and strenous activity)

This deco tracking becomes critical when doing deco and/or repetitive dives. A computer can get you out of the water faster since it tracks your actual dive profile more precisely than mental tracking, therefore you will not need to do additional deco time in order to compensate for a greater degree of imprecision. Of course how safe one chooses to be is up to the individual. Yes, I know deco is an imprecise science, or is it an art? But we all use some type of guidelines which we follow. I hope.

The importance of this is up to each individual to determine. The primary benefit of deco meters is to maximize bottom time and minimize deco stops times, since your actual dive profile is tracked and applied to your deco model with greater precision than mental tracking. This is only part of the "dive plan" and not fool proof. Then again, what is?

Leadweight, thanks for the suggetion to look in the Dr. Deco column. I have found this column along with the other medical column incredibly informative and can highly recommend that everyone takes a look at it, even if they may find much more than they ever wanted to know. You will find many good, easy to apply tips.
Sometimes in discussing a certain issue it may appear that a greater understanding is not known if various specific subjects are not addressed.

Since I think we are now spinning in circles, I like to discuss an issue I have not seen discussed before: forward projections.

In the previously postulated scenario where you have to go back down to help a buddy. Lets say you presently have a deco obligation, and wish to have an idea of how deep and how long you can still go and still complete your new and greater deco obligation based on gas supply, or for that matter by how much you will have to violate deco. When viewed in light of the fact that this estimate is likely to need on the fly real time adjustments (possible stress will increase your gas consumption as an example) and a computer will display where you currently stand at any one point, how important is it to know this information before hand and how is it useful?

To try and answer part of my own question. This forward projection knowledge will be helpful in assisting you to determine how much of an additional risk and deco liability you are taking. Beyond this, for someone who is willing to take an additional risk and is able to monitor current gas and deco demands and make a decision to abort when he's reached his limit, how useful is it to know that you may have 5 minutes at 20 ft greater depth before your risks become too great? I assume that if this knowledge is available before hand one may be able to approach the task at hand more calmly. Then again it could prove a distraction. Frequent monitoring of deco meter could have the same consequences.

The same could be said for rec level diving not so much with respect to a major deco obligation but gas supply.

I wonder if some of you can further expound on this subject.

Are there some computers suitable for deco where if you violate a deco obligation (say you only did 8 min. at 50 ft instead of 12 min) allow you to bypass this obligation and recompute the next level obligation (say you now need to do 15 min at 40 ft instead of 8) or do they all remain stuck "brain dead" (I know some of you will like that) on the lower level violation all the way to the surface in the event you do not go back and complete that specific deco obligation?
 
Scuba once bubbled...
...In the previously postulated scenario where you have to go back down to help a buddy. Lets say you presently have a deco obligation, and wish to have an idea of how deep and how long you can still go and still complete your new and greater deco obligation based on gas supply, or for that matter by how much you will have to violate deco. When viewed in light of the fact that this estimate is likely to need on the fly real time adjustments (possible stress will increase your gas consumption as an example) and a computer will display where you currently stand at any one point, how important is it to know this information before hand and how is it useful?
....

So lets get this right:

1: I already have a deco obligation
2: I'm Still at depth
3: My buddy is down and out for the count

Should I go save him or leave him to die? (Great dive planning here)
(Maybe go down and grab his tank for a deco bottle:wink:)

I would save him, regardless of the deco obligation, and take my chance on the DCS probabilty curve. (I am assuming that this started as a rec dive and the Deco obligation is not large)

Jeff
 
Sorry for the confusion, I did not mention the specific scenerio this was mentioned in. Although many others are possible.

Here it is.

You come out of the cave, or your going through passages in a cave, all of sudden you check for your buddy and he's not there.

How long do you have to look for him, depending on depth, before your chances of surviving decrease greatly due to insufficient gas to complete a possible major deco obligation? How much of an additional deco obligation will you incur? How much will you have to violate?
 
Scuba once bubbled...

Are there some computers suitable for deco where if you violate a deco obligation (say you only did 8 min. at 50 ft instead of 12 min) allow you to bypass this obligation and recompute the next level obligation (say you now need to do 15 min at 40 ft instead of 8) or do they all remain stuck "brain dead" (I know some of you will like that) on the lower level violation all the way to the surface in the event you do not go back and complete that specific deco obligation?

A couple qualifiers to my answer; I don't do planned deco with a computer, IMO there are only 2 (possible 3 with Nitek He) computers capable of planned deco, and NO rec computer is really made to do deco.

The short answer is yes. An "Explorer/VR3" style computer that has planning software built in to it, will recomputer a deco profile on the fly. As they are also capable of mutliple gases, they will also recompute "lost gas" profiles if you should "lose" one, two or all your deco gas. However, you CAN violate them to the point they will lock up, but not in the water AFAIK.

I believe, in the event of a total violation, the Explorer will allow you to get back in the water within a certain time period (10 min I think) and finish your deco time, albeit with extended times.

Phil
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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