What's the best hand held light available - need opinions.

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Jay,

Excellent description; now I understand the photos a bit better. Thanks.

Lee's question about velcro (above) is interesting. I am anxious to hear views from members on this.

And regarding the attachment of the bolt snap to the end of the light, do you always make this a tight attachment or do you sometimes add a bit of additional line in the attachment to give the light a bit more "play"? Adding the additional line (maybe just a few inches) might mean the difference between completely unclipping or not when the light is in use. The risk is that the extra line could get tangled, but if it is only a couple of inches, maybe the risk is low. On the other hand, completely unclipping the light has risks too.

I don't but then again I don't use cave line. I use 1/4" bungee and make a very small loop (cut the ends and seal with a match). I also use 1/4" bungee rather than an inner tube (easier to replace) for the larger loop to keep the head down. That's not the DIR solution but then again this isn't the DIR forum and I'm not DIR.:D

It does work however. If you really want to get fancy (I don't usually do this) you can use shrink wrapping on the larger loop to cover the knot and using a heat gun shrink it when you're done.

Anyway, regarding your original question...using bungee does give some stretch if you want it rather than adding a few inches of extra line (which I wouldn't do). Really, you usually either need the light detached or you don't though.

And I agree, sometimes I put my light back under the loop for the head before I refasten and sometimes I just refasten and worry about it later. It won't really move around that much either way.
 
Really? Website seems to say 6-8 hours "or longer". Obviously 60 hours would fall into the "or longer" category, but you'd think they'd be a bit less conservative about it

Heser Tauchtechnik GmbH

On this website, the author says that at 137 hours it was still bright enough to read gauges by: http://www.cnsales.net/ptledspecs.htm

Of course, that's the Photon Torpedo, and you're talking about the Heser, but the lights are virtually identical, and can be considered universal.

I think it's more of a "threshold" kind of thing... At what point to you decide that you need fresh batteries?

I can tell you that fresh batteries in one of these lights (with the Photon Torpedo and Heser Backup being the real performers), the amount of light coming out of these things (based on a visual estimate, not actual lumens meansurement - which seems very controversial in the industry) will make most 10w HID lights jealous... For about 2-4 horus of burntime. After 2-4 hours of burntime, the light output appears to back off about 10% to 15% (there's actually a barely noticable dropoff in performance), but they're still brighter than most lights of similar design. At 50-60 hours, the performance from these lights is similar to the cheap 3w LED "headlights" that you might find at Wal-Mart... Still very usable, but not near the performance of what you get from a fresh set of batteries.

I can totally see that, at 137 hours, there was still enough glow to read gauges by. I've never tried it, though - my "change batteries" threshold is right around 50-60 hours of burntime. :)

I'm confident that the company is claiming 6-8 hours of burntime because they've promised a certain amount of performance, and after that, the performance goes into a steady decline. Interestingly, unlike Halogen lamps, the light output lessens, but the light color does not change... The light is still a cool, white color - just less of it. Halogens, of course, yellow as they dim, so not only is there less light, but it becomes less usable light... Today's better LEDs like the Heser and the Photon maintain much better "usability" even as the light output reduces because the color of the light does not change.

With regard to the cave line attachment on the back of the light and using other methods... I've seen a variety of different solutions for this, including zip ties, bungee, cave line - you name it. Same with the inner tube or bungee. It's simply a matter of preference - although whatever you do, you want to make sure that it's cuttable... For example, you wouldn't want to use a key ring to attach a bolt snap to the back end of one of these lights because if you somehow became entangled and needed to cut your light free with a knife or scissors, you might not be able to do it. That's a mantra from DIR, too... No metal-to-metal connections.

The rest is really a personal preference kind of thing. I've personally found zip ties to get frail and break after a while (especially if you ever twist them), and since cave line works so well, that's what I use. Here's my favorite way of tying the bolt snaps - I use this for attaching bolt snaps to lights, tools, regs, SPGs, everything:

How to Attach a Snap - Dive Gear Express

ALL of my bolt snaps are 1/2" stainless steel bolt snaps (like the second from the left in this photo):

snap_hook-l.jpg


because that size seems to work well for everything. Your fingers get accustomed to using that size, and you develop a sort of "muscle memory" (also a DIR mantra) that really helps you be able to work efficiently when the visibility drops to zero.

When tying my bolt snaps, I always tie them VERY TIGHT. Again, that's a personal preference thing, but to me, it really keeps things from dangling too badly, which works to streamline the diver. With regards to the lights, the only reason that you'd need to remove the light from your D-ring is usually because the visibility is low and there's a lot of particulate matter in the water. When this is the case, shining a light that's connected to your D-ring can be blinding - like driving with your car's high beams on in fog or snow. Since you're looking straight down the light beam, it can be really tough to see. Photographers call this issue "backscatter." To solve the issue (and the reason why we don't use headlights underwater), remove the light from the D-ring and hold it out to the side, illuminating the area to be lit from the side... Similar to how the strobes on an expensive camera housing work. Lit from the side, "backscatter" caused by particulate matter in the water becomes much less of an issue. For this reason, I can't see an advantage in tying the bolt snap loosely to a backup light - either you'd be able to use the light while connected to the D-ring or you'd have to hold the light out to the side. Six inches of line won't help in either situation, and meanwhile would create a much less streamlined situation.

With regards to using bungee vs. inner tube as a restraint for a stowed light: Either would seem to work, I think. I feel that the inner tube is a very clean a good-looking solution, and it can be cut wide or narrow to adjust for how hard you want to make it hold the light (I like mine 1/4" to 1/2" wide). For just a couple of bucks, you can purchase a 2" wide mountain bike inner tube that'll make many little "restraints." But in the case where you don't have the opportunity to slide something like that on (and need to tie something around), I suppose that bungee would be a great solution. I think it really boils down to personal preference.
 
I have a question for you guys....

Instead of using a inner tube could you not use a piece of Velcro (double sided) to hold the light in place...? This is probably how I will attempt to secure the light using a couple of stitches to attach the Velcro to the webbing. I use this method to secure my knife and it has worked quite well...

SeaJay... fyi, I did order the Heser last week and hope to have it here in the next week... Thanks for the insight!

lee

Sorry, I forgot to address this question! :)

Sure, you could use this method, but if you do, then deployment becomes a little more of a complicated affair - first, you'll have to undo the velcro (a challenge with gloved hands), and then use the light. If you secure the light with inner tube or bungee, then you can just pull and it slides up on it's own... Or use the "thumb and forefinger" trick (one-handed, with gloves) to deploy the light.

It's up to you, really - a personal preference kind of thing. Using velcro wouldn't be DIR, but if you're not worried about a Fundies course or coordinating with other team mates, then it's your call.

To me, the velcro doesn't seem as good of a solution - and more complicated to make. Velcro also tends to lose it's "stick" over time, so I'm not a real big fan of it... But if that's what you like (maybe it works well for you), then go for it.

Occasionally I see someone using surgical tubing in various places on their rig - as a backup necklace, for example, or to secure backup lights like we're talking about here. Surgical tubing is hollow in the middle, and what I find is that this hollow area tends to fill up with water over a series of dives. Many times you can annoy your buddies by "popping" surgical tubing like a zit. :) I find that bungee lasts longer (I believe the fabric covering of bungee holds up better in sunlight than unprotected silicone tubing) and doesn't fill with water over time, so that's what I use. In fact, I buy it by the roll at Surgical Tubing & Shock Cord - Dive Gear Express . I like the thicker 3/16th inch stuff for most applications, and believe that it would make for a fairly good restraining loop for backup lights if I couldn't use inner tube. It also lends well to melting, and a tying a square knot and then melting it a little would secure it quite nicely on a rig.

For what it's worth, I find the little "blowtorch" lighters easier to use to melt bungee and cave line than a regular "BIC" style lighter.

Congratulations on the purchase of the new Heser Backup light... Please let us know your impressions when it comes in... We're expecting a full writeup, with photos! :)
 
then deployment becomes a little more of a complicated affair - first, you'll have to undo the velcro (a challenge with gloved hands), and then use the light.

Fair statement about the gloves as I have not really needed the use of gloves until this weekend (going dry in a cold quarry) but thanks for bringing it to my attention as I will now look to use bungee or tube...

I really appreciate all of the insight brought out in these forums!!!

lee
 
Jay, and others,

This thread has been a real education. Many thanks for everyone's time and comments; I will be a better diver because of this discussion.

Jason
 
Of course, that's the Photon Torpedo, and you're talking about the Heser, but the lights are virtually identical, and can be considered universal.

I think it's more of a "threshold" kind of thing... At what point to you decide that you need fresh batteries?

I can tell you that fresh batteries in one of these lights (with the Photon Torpedo and Heser Backup being the real performers), the amount of light coming out of these things (based on a visual estimate, not actual lumens meansurement - which seems very controversial in the industry) will make most 10w HID lights jealous... For about 2-4 horus of burntime. After 2-4 hours of burntime, the light output appears to back off about 10% to 15% (there's actually a barely noticable dropoff in performance), but they're still brighter than most lights of similar design. At 50-60 hours, the performance from these lights is similar to the cheap 3w LED "headlights" that you might find at Wal-Mart... Still very usable, but not near the performance of what you get from a fresh set of batteries.

Well they are similar on the out side but one is regulated and the other is direct drive. This will make there output curve very different. As for either making a 10watt HID jealous well that’s just laughable at best.
 
Well they are similar on the out side but one is regulated and the other is direct drive. This will make there output curve very different.

Yeah, one's a direct drive while the other is regulated... And while I've never tested either of them to 137 hours, I can't visually tell the difference between their outputs at 50 hours.

The Heser's also got a long, solid, tubular head sink, whereas the Torpedo doesn't. Perhaps that is the reason why they're more similar than different in output.

As for either making a 10watt HID jealous well that’s just laughable at best.

Laugh all you want. Rarely can one of my guys tell the difference when looking at the spots of a 10w HID, a Torpedo, or a Heser, assuming they all have fresh batteries. At the end of the day (8 hours' burn time), there's a HUGE difference - the Torpedo and Heser are still burning (indiscernable from each other) while the 10w HID isn't working any more. :) In fact, it stopped working around noon...

And that ain't funny. :D
 
Well they are similar on the out side but one is regulated and the other is direct drive. This will make there output curve very different. As for either making a 10watt HID jealous well that’s just laughable at best.

I don't think the curve will be all that different if at all (depending on whether a resistor is used or not in the Heser).

Since the voltage from 3 alkaline batteries (4.5V) is fairly close to the 3.6V or so required by the led and since the voltage sag with alkaline batteries under load may get close to that 3.6V without a resistor then there would be no difference. If a resistor is used (recommended) then the difference would be lost as heat and wasted but the difference in light output wouldn't really be noticeable I wouldn't think.

If it was constant current regulated there would be a big difference of course but then it wouldn't be running for more than 6 hours or so before completely shutting off. Since this isn't the case I don't think there will be all that much difference between the two.

I agree regarding the 10 W HID comment to a point but I also see why others make such comments or observations. If you look at the focused hotspot with all of the Cree XR-E emitters it's "bright". At any one spot it may be close to the brightness at a spot somewhere in the central focused beam of a 10W HID.

The lumen output will not be the same and it won't be a bright as that little pinpoint "hotspot" in a HID but in general the 6 degree spot in one may be about as bright as the other. The HID will be putting out more lumen. The eye perceives brightness in a nonlinear way anyway. You double the lumen output and the eye sees a change but for it to appear to double you have to quadruple the output so that's another reason for these observations.
 
A few more facts and then I'm sure this horse will be beat to death.:wink:

Hesser, Photon Torpedo, Salvo Rat...these are all well built backup dive lights designed to use commonly available batteries and in a large enough size to provide good run times even after sitting unused for long periods of time. They are bright and have a nice focused beam.

They are rugged and are now well tested out in the field due to the numbers of people who are and have been using them. They would be a good choice for any application as a backup light and could be used as a primary in some environments.

Having said that there is nothing remarkable about these lights either. They are well built and that is why they are chosen (along with their larger size...3 C cells).

The batteries they use, the leds they use and the performance is no different than most any light out there. Alkaline batteries of whatever type don't function any better in a Heser than in any other light. The led's in a Heser are the same as in hundreds of other flashlights...no brighter, no whiter, the same.

Any flashlight from Home Depot with a Cree XR-E led and 3 alkaline C cells will have a run time identical to a Heser as long as it's not constant current driven. If it is it will be at maximum brightness for much, much longer than a Heser (as would any other such configuration).

Again, any light with 3 alkaline C cells will last as long with the same led (which is the led used in many of today's lights, especially the older ones). What you are buying is a well built light that has been out there and therefore tested for a period of time.

Enthusiasm for any product is great. Due to my upbringing in the South I like Moon Pies but I can't really say that the marshmallows used in them are whiter and sweeter and tastier than any other marshmallow. They're the same and yet I prefer them to any other marshmallow cookie.:wink:
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

Back
Top Bottom