What's the best hand held light available - need opinions.

[D_B]

... It really looked exactly like it?

Your comments on rechargeable batteries not having a shelf life, or having less power storage are correct , and for my emergency light I use alkaline .. but in my, in use all the time, W200 I use the rechargeable , they are charged up between uses , no different than other lights .. note: if using the unregulated version of 18650 rechargeable that that light uses, then it will slowly dim as it drains

BTW .. Packhorse that gcbryan is referring to has not posted to this thread

 

[gcbryan]

That, then, proves that the LEDs are not the same, if your buddy is "replacing the emiter with a slightly higher bin."

There is no need to prove that all led's are not the same. Why all the drama and misdirection? Did anyone say that there is only one led in this world?

I am aware of the various led's currently available and their specifications. The light in question has a Cree XR-E emitter bin P4 which means a top end rating of 170 lumens or so. While he has the light apart for other modifications he replaces it with XR-E bin R2 which has a top end rating of 220 lumens which is similar to the light you have.

The two led's are essentially the same however just given how the eye responds to lumens so there isn't much of a discernible difference. But...who cares?

The main reason for the modification is to replace the reflector with an aspheric lens which eliminates spill and focuses the hotspot. This is to help eliminate backscatter when used in waters with limited viz when certain light spill can just light up the backscatter.

On the lights I mentioned, the LED, reflector and optic are one, solid-state and sealed unit capable of withstanding a flood. There are no separate parts to modify... And no need for modification. The light quality is impressive regardless of whether you consider color, brightness, or focus.

Any light can have it's AA, AAA, C, or D cells replaced with rechargables - Li-Ion or alkaline (or even Ni-Cad). I don't recommend that because rechargable batteries tend to not last as long as disposables, and when they die, they die abruptly and without warning. Disposables, on the other hand, tend to "taper off," so they are predictable and never totally leave you without a functioning light. Disposables also have the advantage that, if left alone for a long time, they still work. I've never seen a rechargable battery have a "no-fire shelf life" as long as a common disposable.

Everyone knows this. You like non-rechargeable batteries. I understand the upside (and downside). For your purposes and for most of us in the role of a backup we use non-rechargeable...not everyone but many of us.

The modification he was doing however was not to just put rechargeable AA's in the place of regular AA's. That wouldn't be a modification would it? Since he would replacing 3 AA batteries which would have 4.5V with (2) 18650 sized li-ion rechargeables the new voltage would be 8.4V and would necessitate a "buck" driver to bring the voltage down to that of the led.

And yes, of course you've never seen a rechargeable that lasts as long on one charge as a regular battery. Nor have I. So what?

You use rechargeable batteries when you are diving frequently, in night or lower viz conditions, requiring a lot of light output and you don't want to be replacing the batteries every day. Not everyone dives in the daytime in S.C.

These are the things that make a light bulletproof and reliable, and working when you need it to work. Switch to rechargables and do modifications to the light, and not only have you spent more money and time working on the light, but it's reliability decreases.

The light that I had that looked exactly like the one pictured cost me about $40 to my door and was made of thin, brittle PVC and had a plastic lens press-fitted and glued to the top of the light. I purchased it about two years ago. If I still had it, I'd take a picture and show you, but it was broken when a tank rolled over it on the deck of one of my boats during an offshore rescue.

I recognize the body - it had a very distinct pattern on it.

Historically speaking, O-ringed glass lenses on light heads have been problematic and are the first place a leak occurs... Which is why pricier lights use solid acrylic heads and solid delrin bodies. On the lights I mention, the only place that water could enter is where the body meets the head, and that joint is designed with two substantial O-rings that become progressively tighter with increased pressure - not the opposite. Any sliding action necessary to activate the switch happens in a circular motion around the O-ring so as to not create stress and actually improve the seal.

I think it's fascinating, your mental lock on this light... And I think it's pretty cool that you've found something that you like and want to mess with and "modify." I still can't understand why you wouldn't simply spend the money and get a better quality, longer-lasting, more dependable light. I seriously considered asking you what light you used while modifying this one... But I'll refrain.

It's interesting that you consider that someone else has a "mental lock" on a light given your description of the light that you like.

I'm not singlemindedly promoting a light as the holygrail...that would be you.

I didn't modify my light. It works great without any modifications. Any light can be modified however and many enjoy being able to customize certain features.

That's my backup light however. I don't need to use it much. As good as it is for a backup light I'm not going to use that one or the one you like as a primary light in PNW conditions. I don't drive trucks over my lights however and I do rinse it off after a dive.

Regarding spending the money...your light offers nothing performance wise over my $37 light so I have no reason to spend more. I spent more for my older primary light and then discovered another light that is brighter, 1/3 the size and can be used hands free, and is 1/4 the price so I bought that as well.

It's not about money. It's about understanding lights and then finding the ones that meet the diving needs at hand.

No one has ever argued that there is anything wrong with the light that you like. You are the one with the condescending remarks about the most mundane things...the earthshaking statement that any battery can be replaced with rechargeables...durh!, all led's must not be the same...wow! and your light head is "solid state", all Chinese lights have glued plastic lens, and two sectioned press fit bodies...where do you come up with all this?

Clearly your talk is sometimes exceeding what you actually know.

Peace brother:cool2:

 

[Hatul]

That, then, proves that the LEDs are not the same, if your buddy is "replacing the emiter with a slightly higher bin."



Any light can have it's AA, AAA, C, or D cells replaced with rechargables - Li-Ion or alkaline (or even Ni-Cad). I don't recommend that because rechargable batteries tend to not last as long as disposables, and when they die, they die abruptly and without warning. Disposables, on the other hand, tend to "taper off," so they are predictable and never totally leave you without a functioning light. Disposables also have the advantage that, if left alone for a long time, they still work. I've never seen a rechargable battery have a "no-fire shelf life" as long as a common disposable.

These are the things that make a light bulletproof and reliable, and working when you need it to work. Switch to rechargables and do modifications to the light, and not only have you spent more money and time working on the light, but it's reliability decreases.


I think it's fascinating, your mental lock on this light... And I think it's pretty cool that you've found something that you like and want to mess with and "modify." I still can't understand why you wouldn't simply spend the money and get a better quality, longer-lasting, more dependable light. I seriously considered asking you what light you used while modifying this one... But I'll refrain.

Your comments about rechargeable batteries are not totally correct and not totally relevant. For one thing Li-Ion batteries when fully charged store more energy than alkalines. Secondly the energy stored is not totally relevant as dive time is limited- so really all you want is full power for the dive with a reserve. Also many who use alkalines are tempted to reuse them for another dive or even day, in which fully charged rechargeables win in the energy dept.

It's true rechargeable drop off voltage steeper than alkalines but again it's not an issue in most cases as dive time is much shorter than battery life.

Shelf life is also not an issue if you charge the battery before use, or at least check voltage with the charger. Also the hybrid batteries like Eneloop have a shelf life of a few months if that's a issue.

I stay away from C and D cell lights as they are unnecessarily bulky with the new LEDs and the chargers for these are even bulkier.

Adam

 

[Deep South Divers]

You use rechargeable batteries when you are diving frequently, in night or lower viz conditions, requiring a lot of light output and you don't want to be replacing the batteries every day. Not everyone dives in the daytime in S.C.

You're kidding, right?

You DON'T use rechargable batteries when you are diving frequently... You use a light that always fires and is reliable. For night ops (like last night, when I was 3 miles offshore in the rain, in 8' swells, 40 knot winds, 44* air and 51* water... And I was under a shrimp boat disentagling it's nets from it's propeller) you couldn't pay me enough money to dive with a light powered by rechargables, especially since you and I both know that I didn't get the luxury of charging them before I got the emergency call.

Today (I dive every day) the water visibility increased to a whopping 1' while we experienced a tide of almost 11 feet. Twice in a 24-hour period.

Your theory of "don't want to replace the batteries every day" is exactly right... That's why you get a light that'll run for more than just a few hours. If you don't, it's simple... At some point, your light won't work, and at that point it won't matter whether or not the body and head are made of aluminum, what kind of LED it had, or whether or not it's got a button on it.

Does it matter than you could get a 21W Halcyon light to go with you? Absolutely not... You just want a light that works.

...And modified $40 Chinese lights with home-built reflectors and rechargable AA batteries are a joke.

"You use rechargables when you're diving more frequently..." You must be stoned, man. Check my profile before spouting off on me like that.

It's interesting that you consider that someone else has a "mental lock" on a light given your description of the light that you like.

Clearly, you're propagating misinformation, and when I call you on it, you say comments like what you said above.

I'm done toying with this subject. Clearly, you not only "don't know," but you don't know that you "don't know." The problem is that someone, somewhere might believe what you're sayng is correct, and some semblance of logic must be thrown into the thread here.

I'm not singlemindedly promoting a light as the holygrail...that would be you.

Actually, the OP said, "What's the best light available," and I gave an opinion... To which you replied with all sorts of mismashed, off-the-wall misinformation that clearly has no basis in reality.

If someone said to you, "Hey, what's the best car in the market," and you said, "Honda Civics, 'cause they're wicked fast," I'd react pretty much the same way. Sure, each of us have their own opinions, but there's gotta be some credibility first.

Regarding spending the money...your light offers nothing performance wise over my $37 light so I have no reason to spend more. I spent more for my older primary light and then discovered another light that is brighter, 1/3 the size and can be used hands free, and is 1/4 the price so I bought that as well.

Yep, there it goes again... "My Mitsubishi Eclipse is just as fast as your Bentley, so I have no reason to spend more."

Good for you, man.

 

[Deep South Divers]

Your comments about rechargeable batteries are not totally correct and not totally relevant. For one thing Li-Ion batteries when fully charged store more energy than alkalines. Secondly the energy stored is not totally relevant as dive time is limited- so really all you want is full power for the dive with a reserve. Also many who use alkalines are tempted to reuse them for another dive or even day, in which fully charged rechargeables win in the energy dept.

It's true rechargeable drop off voltage steeper than alkalines but again it's not an issue in most cases as dive time is much shorter than battery life.

Shelf life is also not an issue if you charge the battery before use, or at least check voltage with the charger. Also the hybrid batteries like Eneloop have a shelf life of a few months if that's a issue.

I stay away from C and D cell lights as they are unnecessarily bulky with the new LEDs and the chargers for these are even bulkier.

Adam

You guys are making my head hurt.

Tell ya what... You're welcome to come diving with me any time... Day or night, SC or not. But if we get out there and your light fails, I'm not saving your behind.

I'd have enjoyed y'all's company last night. Bet that Intova push-button or $40 Chinese knockoff would have been great out there, burning it's little rechargable AAs off.

 

[gcbryan]

We get it. You dive a lot and work underwater and want a dependable light.

Anything more nuanced than black and white seems to make your head hurt.

Home built reflectors..where do you come up with this stuff?

This will be my last post in this thread as it's clearly not productive.

 

[Deep South Divers]

We get it. You dive a lot and work underwater and want a dependable light.

Actually, what I said was in response to:

You use rechargeable batteries when you are diving frequently, in night or lower viz conditions, requiring a lot of light output and you don't want to be replacing the batteries every day. Not everyone dives in the daytime in S.C.

I found your comment insulting, rediculous, uneducated, and totally incorrect.

Anything more nuanced than black and white seems to make your head hurt.

No, it "makes my head hurt" when I write a page of, "A light shouldn't need to be recharged between every dive," (then give many examples why), only to be greeted with:

...Secondly the energy stored is not totally relevant as dive time is limited- so really all you want is full power for the dive with a reserve. Also many who use alkalines are tempted to reuse them for another dive or even day, in which fully charged rechargeables win in the energy dept.

It's true rechargeable drop off voltage steeper than alkalines but again it's not an issue in most cases as dive time is much shorter than battery life.

It's as if, in all that was said, not a thing was heard.

This will be my last post in this thread as it's clearly not productive.

Yeah, makes me want to give up the discussion, too.

 

[D_B]

Rechargable AA's?
Home made reflector??

... not on any light thats been referenced here by me or gcbryan


If rechargable batteries are so bad for daily use, then why do cannister lights have them? ... It's because they are sized to have the power to last as long as your application needed, then you recharge them before using it again .. why can that not be true for a smaller primary light as well?

 

[Deep South Divers]

If rechargable batteries are so bad for daily use, then why do cannister lights have them? ... It's because they are sized to have the power to last as long as your application needed, then you recharge them before using it again .. why can that not be true for a smaller primary light as well?

You know, man... Again, that's like saying, "Hey, Formula One cars have huge wings on the back and sponsorship stickers all over them... So why not on my Civic?"

Dude, tell ya what... You're welcome to do whatever you want with lights, k? Once, in the sixth grade, I did a science project where we took a bunch of nickels and a bunch of pennies and stacked them up together and made a battery. If you want to use a nickel/penny battery for your light, by all means, feel free. Here's another idea for you: Make a miniature cannister light. The light head can attach via a Goodman handle around your pinky, which is connected to a roll-of-quarters sized Li-Ion battery pack on a wristband by a 6" long rubberized light cord. That'll probably be the coolest EVER! You could make one for each finger - certainly ten lights have got to be better than one! That'd be AWESOME!

Look, if you want to spend your surface intervals cracking open your lights and recharging batteries, then by all means, do it. Do it enough, and I have a feeling that there will come a time when you say, "screw it" and go diving with the light that works and works all the time.

Especially since, as we've already established, the performance is basically equal to a 10w HID anyway...

I just don't understand why y'all feel the need to complicate things.

'Nough said. Opinions were solicited, and I don't think it's unclear that some have been expressed.

 

[D_B]

wow here, I'll highlight the pertinent part of my post above

If rechargeable batteries are so bad for daily use, then why do cannister lights have them? ... It's because they are sized to have the power to last as long as your application needed, then you recharge them before using it again .. why can that not be true for a smaller primary light as well?

meaning .. if they don't , then you need different batteries, or that particular light is not good for the dives you do


but, instead you decide to focus on the word cannister and go off on a sixth grade science project ...