What you dislike most....?

[Jim Lapenta]

Never said I felt ripped off. Just don't like being denied the opportunity to do what I know how. In the grand scheme as you say is every diver going to go and start servicing their own regs? No. The shop will never lose that business. The once year or occaisional diver will not invest the $600 I did on specialized tools. But for those of us that do, being allowed to buy the parts out in the open could mean more business in other ways for that shop. Sell me parts and let me save money there. Maybe I'll spend that money saved on a new reg or other piece of gear that I'd otherwise go to the internet for because it's $30 -$75 cheaper. About what I'd have to pay them to service my reg.

And BTW even though I did my own brakes I do not change my own oil. Don't have proper disposal site, no good area to do it, and with an oil change and tire rotation costing me $19.95 at NTB I can barely do it that cheap myself! They send me a coupon every 3 months. Don't go by that but by mileage, but I always have a good one around.

 

[Teamcasa]

Never said I felt ripped off. Just don't like being denied the opportunity to do what I know how...

If you can't find the needed parts at one shop, call/shop around. There must be some shops within the reach of your phone and FedEx that would be willing to sell you what you need.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

So, you saved $200 by doing the job yourself or you found a shop that would do it for $200 less?

No one would dispute that if you do the job yourself, use quality or original parts and do all of the same things the shop would, and do all of the labor properly then a savings is to be expected. However, let me say that even though the parts may fit, all parts are not equal. In addition, only time will tell if you made a good decision by ignoring your trained mechanic's recommendations.

Some people just like working on their cars. I have a friend who restores classic cars for a hobby. He probably knows more about cars than most of the trained mechanics working in the industry. But he does it for a hobby ... a pretty lucrative hobby, I might add ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[The Chairman]

Just don't like being denied the opportunity to do what I know how.

I fully agree. Even though you probably aren't thoroughly trained or have the experience to competently diagnose any number of brake maladies, you did an adequate job. I would assume you weren't injured, didn't hurt the car and that you were able to remove and replace the pads with a minimum of trouble. Shade tree mechanics have been doing that since the beginning of the automotive era with very few issues.

In fact, professional mechanics can often trace their roots to helping their dad or other friends on the family car port. I don't see anyone unduly criticizing them for doing this or suggesting that they will "surely die" for using a cheap brand of brake pads.

Yet, in diving, some expect everyone to dive in precisely the same manner and to the same skill level. It sounds like a double standard to me. Either training is important... or it's optional. Either the shade tree is responsible for any injuries incurred by a sub standard job, or they are not. We don't seem to be blaming the Parts Shop or the friend who first showed them how to repair their car. But, there seems to be a lot of that directed to Instructors and LDSes. Like I said, the double standard is kind of disturbing.

 

[RiverRat]

Never said I felt ripped off. Just don't like being denied the opportunity to do what I know how

I think many of us that are mechanically inclined feel that way. We're passionate about doing things right and enjoy working on things that we're capable of repairing and maybe saving a few bucks. I hate the "life support" argument that many shops throw around to "scare" you into using them for service. Most divers know what they're getting into if they're considering doing their own service. Usually it's technically oriented people that have the right mindset/skillset to troubleshoot and repair equipment. Many tech divers fit this category.

I see this same argument has come up here about working on autos as well. Several months ago my truck got "butchered", for lack of a better term, by the dealer I bought it from. Their techs are supposed to be certified but they left a bunch of stuff off my truck when they slammed it back together. They changed out the I'm stupid and the radiator due to an "intermix" problem as a result of the radiator failing and mixing T-fluid with antifreeze. The I'm stupid seems fine but they left off a hose (EGR?) as well as bolts on the I'm stupid line clamps, all of the hose routing was a mess, they never bolted the AC condensor back to the radiator, the shroud is not inserted properly etc. etc. etc. Now the engine light is on because they messed up the emissions because I drove around for a week with the hose off. I still smell antifreeze. I have not been back yet. I plan on going over the whole truck in detail when I have time and most likely I'm going to another dealer if I have any more problems. This hack job was done AFTER I complained about their service from a previous job!

So the point here is credentials don't always mean people/businesses/shops know what they're doing and does not guarantee you'll get good service.

 

[The Chairman]

Some people just like working on their cars.

Some people just like to dive. Again, we rarely see the kibitzing about how a shade tree mechanic does their brakes, be we certainly see it towards divers.

Two DEMAs ago, Howie's truck needed brakes. He was kind of surprised at some of the things I did to ensure that his brakes operated correctly and efficiently. He saw me use two distinct lubricants and a sealant. He asked me why and while he probably doesn't remember the conversation, he was kind of surprised at how I installed them and how I WOULDN'T cut some corners. The ironic thing is I think he traded it in the next week!

 

[HowardE]

So the point here is credentials don't always mean people/businesses/shops know what they're doing and does not guarantee you'll get good service.

Who did you complain to? The shop, or the equipment manufacturer? Unlike the auto industry, which everyone here like to compare to the scuba industry. Most if not all of these "large scuba companies" (which may employ hundreds when you include their manufacturing arms of the company) still have small corporate headquarters, with relatively small staffs like in the 10-40 people range.

If you told the manufacturer about poor service from an authorized dealer, I'm relatively sure that you'd see a response from that manufacturer in one way or another.

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So if I'm following the gist of the complaints about the industry from this thread... It's not the hobbyist dive shop owners that are the problem. Its not the super dive instructor that thinks the "industry" has a responsibility to ensure that every diver receives the highest quality of training, and that we're all in this together for the good of our fellow divers. The problem with the industry is that regular guys can't buy parts to fix their own gear?

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Pete... Your brake job was totally pro. I didn't get rid of that truck for a few months after that.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Some people just like to dive. Again, we rarely see the kibitzing about how a shade tree mechanic does their brakes, be we certainly see it towards divers.

I think you see that in just about every recreational activity known to humankind ... particularly on Internet forums.

Peruse a mountain biking forum sometime ... you'd be amazed at what people can find to argue about with something as simple as a bicycle ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

So if I'm following the gist of the complaints about the industry from this thread... It's not the hobbyist dive shop owners that are the problem. Its not the super dive instructor that thinks the "industry" has a responsibility to ensure that every diver receives the highest quality of training, and that we're all in this together for the good of our fellow divers. The problem with the industry is that regular guys can't buy parts to fix their own gear?

Honestly Howard ... I'm not understanding your antagonism here. If we're not supposed to talk about what we don't like about the industry, why don't you just make this thread go away? Because that was, after all, what the OP asked us to talk about ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[HowardE]

Honestly Howard ... I'm not understanding your antagonism here. If we're not supposed to talk about what we don't like about the industry, why don't you just make this thread go away? Because that was, after all, what the OP asked us to talk about ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

1) I don't make threads go away.

2) I'm serious. This is apparently the consensus of the thread so far. The problem is that regular folks can't buy parts direct from manufacturers.

Aside from this. What are the real problems with the industry? I think the focus of this thread has been the discussion of being able to repair my own brakes vs scuba regs. I would surmise that this is far from the OP's original topic. Maybe the discussion should move toward some other possible real problems with the dive industry?


So again I ask. Is this the biggest dislike? Not being able to buy parts direct??