What would you do with a J-valve?

You're given a tank with a J-valve. What do you do before the dive?

  • Leave it up (off). That's how they work.

    Votes: 30 22.7%
  • Turn it down (on). Of course.

    Votes: 69 52.3%
  • It doesn't matter. I have a pressure gauge.

    Votes: 14 10.6%
  • Ask the DM: "What the heck is THAT!?"

    Votes: 10 7.6%
  • "Uh... I think I'll just go snorkeling today."

    Votes: 10 7.6%

  • Total voters
    132

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after 25 years of service. Had it recently rebuilt and discovered the burst disk was cross-threaded...tossed it and replaced it with a Sherwood K-valve.

Still have the stainless pull rod for my dive gear museum...giant Dacor 3-window mask, 6mm wetsuit with beaver-tail, horse-collar BC, huge USD knife, jetfins (oops, still using those)...
 
Cyklon_300,
Your last paragraph almost completely describes my first set of gear. Lots of great memories!!!
Ahhhhh.... the "good old days"??
good luck,
Mike

PS- on your profile picture-all I get is a little white square with a red "x"- I right click on it, and get a menu, which includes "show picture". I click on that, and the square vanishes,only to reappear again- no picture!!!
Can somebody tell me what that is all about? (Sometimes,at other locations, the red x disappears, and a picture appears, sometimes not){ embarrassed at my computer lack of savvy}
 
didn't notice that it was a Read Only file...will try to fix it.
 
That's correct, but why.

With the valve down(ON) position the reserve mechanism is de-activated. Allowing all the air to flow through just like aK valve. Modern gear no longer has provisions for the PULL ROD so it's difficult to reach the lever and activate it.

Another problem with the J valves is they restrict flow.
A few years ago I had a old J valve and was diving with a new diver (Never seen a J). I apparently bumped the lever at some point, so it was half on/half off. It was throttling my air at 1200 psi.
I could see my pressure gauge needle dipping and feel the breathing resistance. We were in 30 feet of water and I was in control, so there was no immediate danger. I signaled my partner "Low on air", and she of course "signaled go up".
I signal stop, and pointed back to my valve/regulator. She looked and looked back at me with this huh? look in her face.
After 3 more signal attempts, I finally pulled my slate out of my pocket and wrote, "Pull Lever on tank valve DOWN".

Everthing was ok and we finished the dive without incident.
On shore we talked about the J valve problem, and she told me she'd never seen one before. I was shocked. Times change, I thought everyone knew about J valves, well NOT SO.

I've since dumped my all J valves and replaced them with K's.

But as a side note the local dive shop still has half a dozen J valves in their rental gear.

MikeD
:blfish:
 
I started a long time ago too. I was civilian trained by WMCA '56. Later Military Combat Diver Course Key West, FL '62

First SCUBA was Scott Air Pack full face mask, small tank. (Almost convinced me to stop diving.)

Switched to two hose Regulator (US Divers) and 72 PSI tank & J valve/with harness. (No BCD)

Bell Aqua dry suit w/hood (tunnel entry front) no valves

Duck Feet fins, Oval gum rubber mask, W

Depth gauge/compass/watch US Divers

Now: Req. Atomic B-1, Zegale Ranger BC, Dry suit DUI CF 200, DUI Weight system, Atomic Split Fins, Big Eye mask, Casio watch Depth-temp-time, computer Data Plus Pro (air interrogated.) :D
 
Don't forget to keep an eye on whoever is filling your tanks; I've had one pup say it didn't matter if the lever was up or down during filling. (quick education ensued)
Keeping it up during filling results in a very short fill. Fill whip gauge will show the usual 2250 psi, but there'll be about 600 psi in the tank, depending on how fast they try to fill it.
 
I have used these for many, many years, and still occasionally use either my twin tanks or my single with a "J" reserve and a double hose regulator. Swimming "clean" is a much different feeling than today's diver, with all the hoses, BC, tank guage, etc. which create a lot of water drag.

To avoid the problem of an accidently tripped "J" reserve, I've mounted one of my sets of doubles with the reserve on the right side (opposite of where it would normally be located), and it's facing inward, not outward. This effectively prevents it from being inadvertently tripped by bumping up against an object while underwater.

I've used both K and J valves, and have three singles, two with J's and one with a K valve. The one with the K valve has an interchangable mechanism with my Sherwood duel manifold, which I elected to set up as a "J" valve configuration (the doubles mentioned above). When I can, I use a pull rod with my J valves and I do use them. I leave them in the "up" position (which I think of as the "on" position). I also check it during the dive, pushing up on the lever at periodic intervals.

I just tried to duplicate with a half-full steel tank (~1200 psi left in it), and could not reproduce the restriction problem that was noted in another post above. If the valve is working correctly, then having it bumped halfway down should not affect the air flow at all. I think something is wrong with the valve, and perhaps the valve seat for the J reserve is coming apart or something weird like that is happening. I wouldn't dive that valve again until it is disassembled and examined.

I have two very good sources for descriptions of the "J" valve. They are the 1970 US Navy Diving Manual, and Fred Roberts book, Basic Scuba. The 1070 US Navy Manual states:

(a) Air-Reserve valve.--The air-reserve valve is built into an elbow in the cylinder-block manifold assembly that connects one of the air cylinders to the shutoff valve. THe air-reserve valve serves as a warning and a safety device for the diver. A reserve supply of air is conserved in one of the air cylinders by the air-reserve valve for use by the diver when the main supply of air is nearly exhausted. The pressure in the reserve air cylinder is held at 500 psi as the diver expends the air in the other air cylinder. when the pressure drops below 500 psi, the diver wille xperience difficulty in breathing; this signal warns the diver that only a fraction of the air supply remains. The diver can then open the air-reserve valve by uplling down on the pull rod (see fig. D-10) on the side of the left air cylinder.
The air-reserve valve is a flow-check valve with a manual override. As long as the absolute pressure in the air cylinder to which the air-reserve valve is attached remains above 500 psi, flowing air opens the air-reserve valve. When the air-cylinder pressure drops below 500 psi, a spring forces the flow check against a port orifice, shutting off the flow of air from the cylinder. The pressure in this cylinder will then remain at 500 psi, because no air is then being taken from that air cylinder, while the pressure in the other air cylinder continues to drop during diver breathing.
When the diver desires to use the reserve air supply, he opens the air-reserve valve by pulling on the rod described above. This action rotates the valve slide lever one-quarter of a turn. This rotation advances a plunger pin, and pushes the flow check off the orifice against the action of the 500 psi spring. THe reserve air from the air cylinder which has been held at 500 psi then flows into the other air cylinder until the pressure equalizes. Because the plunger pin continues to hold the flow check open, the entire reserve supply becomes available to the diver.

The Navy Diving Manual then has a warning that "...ascent to the surface should be started immediately because the reserve air supply is only a fraction of the original air supply."

Fred Roberts calls the J valve a "Constant Reserve 'J' Type" valve. He has a description of the valve operation, then states:
When cylinder pressure falls to a given design value, generally 300 psig plus or minus in single units, the reserve spring is able to hold the reserve seat assembly into the air stream and effectively choke off the flow of air. The air is never actually cut off short, but rather breathing resistance is caused to climb rapidly, jolting the preoccupied diver back into reality. The seat of this particular mechanism is thus made so that it can leak a little...All constant reserve valves are, in effect, depth compenasted because of the inherent chareacteristics of the demand regulator. Because the regulator supplies air at ambient pressure, the spirng setting will always be the reserve sping value plus ambient pressure. THe resulting pressure will be the cut off point. For example, at 100 feet the gauge ambient pressure is over 44 psig greater than it is at the surface; thus regulator cut off is about 44 psig higher and reserve will therefore occur at 344 psig rather than 300 psig."

Note the difference between the Navy's description of this valve and Mr. Roberts description. The edition of Basic Scuba I have was published in 1963, while the Navy manual was from 1970. This sounds like it's way back there to today's divers, but even that short time span resulted in a technological difference in the functioning of the valve. While the "constant reserve" feature remained the same (and still is today), the valve by 1970 actually completely shut off the air, whereas before about 1960 it apparently did not.

SeaRat
 
John,
the J valve was never designed to 'leak'. If that were so, double and triple tank setups would bleed down past the set point and leave the diver with no reserve air. Actually, the J reserve employs a linear spring and hard seat which gradually closes off the air while tank pressure drops. This feature effectively prevents the two stage regulator from cycling fully, that is to say the intermediate stage does not have time to build to full pressure causing a lag in 'breathing'. The diver senses that air is becoming restricted. Incidently, single tank valves are set at 300 psi, twin tanks use a 500 psi setting and triples are 700 psi. As far as the lever angle, Scubapro and Nemrod reserve arms pulled forward, USD pulled backwards. Smart to reverse the USD arrangement or check the reserve pullrod if swimming around kelp, fishing lines or wrecks (overhead). John, when I first put on a set of tanks, farmers were still plowing with mules.

Pesky:D
 
Sorry, I never answered the original question. Well, some folks did but I didn't see an explanation. If you happen to be diving with rental or borrow tanks equipped with a J valve, put the lever down. If it's your tank you should think about a new K valve. Here's the deal; the J valve, in the 'on' ('up') position can interfere with your SPG readings. This is primarily a problem with multiple tanks. The air in the non reserve tank or tanks will be dropping faster than the tank which is controlled by the reserve valve. The result is that the SPG will give a lower reading than actual. For the unaware, may cause problems with dive planning and execution. Otherwise, the J mechanism is redundant to the modern diver. Something extra to fail. What kind of failure? Well, the reserve arm stem may leak, but something potentially more serious; I've seen the USD valve seat come loose which bleeds air and disables the reserve. Air pressure can migrate under the hard phenolic plastic seat of the USD reserve valve and cause it to pop out of the brass poppet. If a piece migrated into the twin manifold it could restrict air flow. I saw this happen once in the 70's and forced the diver into a free ascent. I wrote a nasty gram to USD. They responded by sending me a couple new seats.
 

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