What training agency

[oahu_diver]

Attend an institution with an active research diver training program, get a science degree, engage in underwater research, work your way up through the training staff, take some management and public administration courses.

And that brings us back to a previous post...at what point do you satisfy requirement #4 below?


This person should have broad technical and scientific expertise in research related diving.
a) Qualifications
1. Shall be appointed by the responsible administrative officer or designee, with the
advice and counsel of the Diving Control Board.
2. Shall be trained as a scientific diver.
3. Shall be a full member as defined by AAUS.
4. Shall be an active underwater instructor from a internationally recognized
certifying agency.

 

[Thalassamania]

If you feel the need to do so, I'd recommend that it be an "add on" after you've met the other criteria.

 

[oahu_diver]

If you feel the need to do so, I'd recommend that it be an "add on" after you've met the other criteria.

I don't think it's an "If I feel the need" type of situation. It appears to be a requirement in the AAUS manual.

 

[Thalassamania]

If the institution requires it it is a requirement, if the institution decides otherwise then it is not, as I have indicated earlier, the institution is sovereign and it was never the intent of we founders to either dictate to the sovereign institution nor to require a credential as weak as a recreational diving instructor certificate. But you do raise a good point, and considering how many folks out there who have neither the experience nor confidence to anything except follow "rules," regardless of the intent, I will endeavor to make two changes in the next revision of the AAUS manual: 1) remove (or change to a "suggestion") the recreational instructor certification requirement; 2) make clear that this is a "model" set of standards, that are not designed to fit all cases and the reasonable freedom in the specifics, outside of what OSHA specifically requires, may be exercised at the institution's need.

 

[oahu_diver]

Attend an institution with an active research diver training program, get a science degree, engage in underwater research, work your way up through the training staff, take some management and public administration courses.

Following this path, where would the prospective DSO get the training/qualifications/credentials to conduct check-out dives and get the experience to take a student who is not a certified diver through scuba training?

How would this DSO (who is not an instructor) get liability insurance? Insurance may not be an AAUS requirement, but do you think it's in the best interest to take on such a liability as scuba training without insurance?

As I've said in a previous post, I agree with you that recreational instructor training does not prepare a person to be a DSO, but I think it should be PART of the credentials. I'm not saying that the recreational agencies should have any part of scientific diver training...just, as you say, an "add-on" to the DSO and not necessarily a requirement for the scientific diver. Just like having a driver license doesn't make you a NASCAR driver...but I would hope that somewhere along the line, you received initial driver training and received a regular driver license before moving to the NASCAR track. But then again, NASCAR probably doesn't require a regular driver license because they're not driving on the public roads, but I hope you get my point.

 

[Thalassamania]

Following this path, where would the prospective DSO get the training/qualifications/credentials to conduct check-out dives and get the experience to take a student who is not a certified diver through scuba training?

Experience teaching under the DSO at another institution is, as I indicated previously, the only real preparation since this is something that even your finest CD is qualified, at this point, the teach. AAUS, or another organization, does need, in time, to fill this need in a more formal fashion.

How would this DSO (who is not an instructor) get liability insurance? Insurance may not be an AAUS requirement, but do you think it's in the best interest to take on such a liability as scuba training without insurance?

In all the time I was a DSO I never bought insurance, I operated under the institution's instructional liability policy (with a letter signed by the President that was forwarded to the insurance carrier). That was far better insurance than any of the recreational carriers provide. In fact, since the instruction is "vocational" in nature, I believe that some of the recreation carriers exclude it.

As I've said in a previous post, I agree with you that recreational instructor training does not prepare a person to be a DSO, but I think it should be PART of the credentials. I'm not saying that the recreational agencies should have any part of scientific diver training...just, as you say, an "add-on" to the DSO and not necessarily a requirement for the scientific diver. Just like having a driver license doesn't make you a NASCAR driver...but I would hope that somewhere along the line, you received initial driver training and received a regular driver license before moving to the NASCAR track. But then again, NASCAR probably doesn't require a regular driver license because they're not driving on the public roads, but I hope you get my point.

I get your point, but I do not agree, e.g., my folks sent me to competition driving school before I was ever licensed to drive on the road, and I think that may have saved my life, both with the skills that were developed and the change in attitude that was inculcated.

 

[smellzlikefish]

The AAUS course I am familiar with will only train you if you have your basic open water card. They then go about retraining you on everything you learned during your open water course. It is a little redundant, but repetition leads to learning.

 

[oahu_diver]

Thanks again for indulging me...so far, this has been a great education for me.

 

[Thalassamania]

Thank you for pointing out the problem, now we can start on a fix. Let me give you a little history as to how it came about: a group of DSOs had been meeting, mainly at Scripps, as an outgrowth of a group called the California Advisory Committee on Scientific and Technical Diving - "technical" meant technician, not it's current meaning, applying at that time primarily to film crews. We had been preparing a manual for the not yet formed AAUS based on an amalgam of the Univ. of Calif, Univ of Michigan and Univ. of Rhode Island manuals. The subcommittee that was doing this work were sitting in the meeting room of the Director's office, most of us were from out of town and had to leave very soon to catch planes. Without getting into the details and politics of the moment (most of which I have forgotten at this stage) the manual was left undone in the hands of the DSO from one of the Cal State College campuses who had very close ties to the recreational diving world and precisely one scientific diver in his program. In the end we would up with a cut-and-paste version of the Cal State Manual, one that I felt was at the time the weakest of all the models available. Time was pressing and so were our real jobs and thus was born the first edition of the AAUS manual, many good changes and additions have been made since, but this sort of thing will, I fear, keep cropping up, and as we decided some thirty, or so, years ago, we'll deal with each as we can. Thanks again.

For those who found this thread interesting, might I recommend a DIVE MATRIX thread:
[h=1]Scientific Diving - What types of dive projects could be described as "scientific"?[/h]

 

[oahu_diver]

Thank you for pointing out the problem, now we can start on a fix. Let me give you a little history as to how it came about: a group of DSOs had been meeting, mainly at Scripps, as an outgrowth of a group called the California Advisory Committee on Scientific and Technical Diving - "technical" meant technician, not it's current meaning, applying at that time primarily to film crews. We had been preparing a manual for the not yet formed AAUS based on an amalgam of the Univ. of Calif, Univ of Michigan and Univ. of Rhode Island manuals. The subcommittee that was doing this work were sitting in the meeting room of the Director's office, most of us were from out of town and had to leave very soon to catch planes. Without getting into the details and politics of the moment (most of which I have forgotten at this stage) the manual was left undone in the hands of the DSO from one of the Cal State College campuses who had very close ties to the recreational diving world and precisely one scientific diver in his program. In the end we would up with a cut-and-paste version of the Cal State Manual, one that I felt was at the time the weakest of all the models available. Time was pressing and so were our real jobs and thus was born the first edition of the AAUS manual, many good changes and additions have been made since, but this sort of thing will, I fear, keep cropping up, and as we decided some thirty, or so, years ago, we'll deal with each as we can. Thanks again.

For those who found this thread interesting, might I recommend a DIVE MATRIX thread:
[h=1]Scientific Diving - What types of dive projects could be described as "scientific"?[/h]

Oh, I don't think we've identified a problem. I think we've identified your opinion.