What to do in the event that...

[Jim Lapenta]

Jim, I was taught to dump all or some of my BC air and to use the unconscious diver's BC for lift.

I realize this is also taught that way. My own instruction was the way I teach and I find it works well. I do show both ways but OW students seem more comfortable with an inflator they know works when controlling the lift. The other reason I was taught this way is to avoid getting tangled up with the unconscious diver should their inflator malfunction and start filling uncontrollably. I know my equipment (inflator) is in good shape and works. I don't know about theirs.

Of course it could be a moot point for most since to my PERSONAL knowledge only NAUI, SEI, IANTD, and CMAS teach this skill to OW students by standards. If there are other agencies that REQUIRE it at the OW level I'd like to know

 

[cloudflint]

I realize this is also taught that way. My own instruction was the way I teach and I find it works well. I do show both ways but OW students seem more comfortable with an inflator they know works when controlling the lift. The other reason I was taught this way is to avoid getting tangled up with the unconscious diver should their inflator malfunction and start filling uncontrollably. I know my equipment (inflator) is in good shape and works. I don't know about theirs.

Of course it could be a moot point for most since to my PERSONAL knowledge only NAUI, SEI, IANTD, and CMAS teach this skill to OW students by standards. If there are other agencies that REQUIRE it at the OW level I'd like to know

To get my basic SSAC (scottish sub-aqua club) qualification i had to learn to do a rescue, i actually did my padi OW course then joined SSAC and was classed as a trainee with them for about a year while i learnt all the rescue skills and stuff from them.

When we do a rescue we approach form the front dumping all the air out our BC, we then grab the unconcious diver by their center strap and get them upright chest to chest against us. We then use their inflator to lift them up. The reason we do it this way is that if you use the bouyancy in your own jacket to life them and you lose your grip on them they will end up falling rapidly while you shoot to the surface. Also holding them this way allows you to lift your left arm up to vent your drysuit and also allows their left arm to rise up naturally which automatically vents their drysuit. It also prevents their feet front drifting up and causing them to go inverted which is a real problem with a drysuit. We also try out each outhers bcd inflators before every dive so we are familiar with each outhers controls in the event of an emergency.

Before anyone gets into the sea we make them do a full simulated rescue in the pool, so lifting the diver from the bottom, get them on the surface, call for help, swim about 50 meters while giving rescue breaths then get them into the side of the pool, get them onto land, remove their kit administer first aid e.t.c all the while we usually have a few club members throwing buckets of water over them and yelling at them to see how they handle the stress. For the basic equivalent of an open water qualification you have to do about 5 or so lifts from about 15 meters in the sea and do one full simulated rescue in the sea as well. We consider stalling, going back down, looking at any of your gauges or coming up to fast to be a fail during a lift.

We also like to suddenly pretend to fall unconscious on trainees in the water to see how they cope and sometimes at the end of a dive we will randomly pretend to fall unconscious just to keep each outhers skills up

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Do you teach them to hold the regulator in the vics mouth? For your description it does not sound like it.

I do the unconscious stuff as well in AOW and rescue classes. OW no because that means I am not looking at my students since I don't have an assistant to watch them.

 

[dburg30]

Scubaboard at its very finest.

No it has nothing to do with that. They SHOULD have gotten that training. If they didn't they really should get hold of the instructor to express their concerns, and hopefully the instructor would agree to help the OP out with any concerns.

I'm not an instructor, and I'm sure as hell not going to try to 'instruct' someone on a public forum, since they havent gotten the proper training yet, and if something would happen from 'instruction' I or someone else gives, the past has shown that somehow you could be held liable for that.

So while it may seem like a glib response, I was serious as a heart attack. And again, they are taught very simply, and one does need to practice skills everytime they dive.

I try to pick SOME skill or 2 every dive and sometime during the dive, we stop and perform the skills. I tend to focus on ones that I just dont like, since those are the ones I think I need work on.

But I stick by my guns if the OP didnt get those answers in the pool training, they were shortchanged and should not accept it.

 

[Dr Wu]

You are greatly over-simplifying my request.

Your request was for information regarding every conceivable issue a diver could possibly have while underwater.

That's a pretty long list.

Considering you just paid for a basic open water certification you might try being a little less disappointed that strangers on the Internet are not willing to spend hours illustrating the literally thousands of things they have learned from decades of instruction and in-water experience.

If you feel you were improperly taught to dive in 80 degree, 60fsw with 100 foot viz, take it up with your instructor or shop.

 

[Linedog]

The quickest way I know of to stop a freeflow is to stick two fingers into the mouthpiece.

 

[danvolker]

No it has nothing to do with that. They SHOULD have gotten that training. If they didn't they really should get hold of the instructor to express their concerns, and hopefully the instructor would agree to help the OP out with any concerns.


So while it may seem like a glib response, I was serious as a heart attack. And again, they are taught very simply, and one does need to practice skills everytime they dive.

.......
But I stick by my guns if the OP didnt get those answers in the pool training, they were shortchanged and should not accept it.

My personal feeling is that if a person decides to choose the short/cheap modular approach of the basic open water diver route, they need to know that it does not necessarily give them the training to survive very long by themselves in a swimming pool....a really good instructor can make massive changes to this outcome, but the idea of the basic course curriculum is terribly flawed. If the course was marketed as a learners permit, then you would not be so upset about the lack of knowledge imparted...it would have been obvious there was little knowledge.

Solution....a person either has to search around for a really good instructor....or, go with. Gue or bsac or some science group like Thal is involved with.

Regards,
DanV

 

[cloudflint]

Do you teach them to hold the regulator in the vics mouth? For your description it does not sound like it.

I do the unconscious stuff as well in AOW and rescue classes. OW no because that means I am not looking at my students since I don't have an assistant to watch them.

Yeah we dont hold the divers regs in, we teach our students not to purge the divers regulator or try to put it back in if it falls out since we figure that doing so could fire stuff down the divers throat. Also we figure since they are going to be constantly ascending to the surface the air in their lungs is going to be expanding which will give them a supply to keep the unconscious diver alive. Also it wouldn't be uncommon for a diver who has fallen unconscious to have stopped breathing for whatever reason so stuffing their reg back in could just end up wasting time.

It may help that we use a 15 meters/50 feet per minute ascent rate so from the max depth our basic qualification qualifies you to go to (30 meter/100 feet) it only takes us 2 minutes to get to the surface so even if you lose your reg with the air in your lungs expanding and you being unconsciousness so hardly using any oxygen they should easily be able to hold out for two minutes.

I dont think we have ever actually had a person lose their reg when they've fallen unconscious, we've found that if someone falls unconscious underwater their jaw remains closed so we find they naturally grip it. The large hoods we all wear for the cold water might help as well to hold it closed. Also we get in very close when we do lifts so that we can keep control so we are pretty much chest-to-chest, reg-to-reg, im not sure their reg would have space to come out!

One guy actually had a heart attack and fell unconscious underwater and when they hit the surface the guys jaw was seized shut so they couldn't get his reg out his mouth to give him mouth to mouth! We usually say to people that if a diver falls unconscious you are better getting them to the surface and onto land as quickly as is safely possible. So long as you get them to the surface somehow that's the main bit! One diver i know actually lifted a diver by sticking the unconscious divers head between his legs then grabbing the unconscious divers legs and lifting him upside-down!

I agree with you about having an assistant as well, we always say that if you are going to be teaching lifts it is pointless without another person there to act as the dummy since if you are being lifted by a student you cant really see whats going on as you say!

EDIT: Just found some footage i took of one of our trainees screwing up a rescue drill:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTW6pKxYSVI

if you skip to 1:25 you can see they make two main mistakes, they grab a side strap and don't pull the body in close enough so when they start going up the body starts to rotate away from them due to the drysuits bouyancy. That was only from about 7 meters as well if i recall. If had been deeper and it was a real rescue the body would have rotated round and ended up upside-own, then with the air migrating to the drysuit feet they would end up shooting up at a fair rate of knots

 

[dburg30]

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/359283-what-do-event.html

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Your request was for information regarding every conceivable issue a diver could possibly have while underwater.

That's a pretty long list.

Considering you just paid for a basic open water certification you might try being a little less disappointed that strangers on the Internet are not willing to spend hours illustrating the literally thousands of things they have learned from decades of instruction and in-water experience.

If you feel you were improperly taught to dive in 80 degree, 60fsw with 100 foot viz, take it up with your instructor or shop.

Why do you think I'm asking for one person to explain every single scenario? Just give tips on whatever comes to mind, geez. Make this thread multiple pages with a tip or two from each poster. It can be basic. It can be convoluted. It can only be for people who are cave diving. Whatever. I'm not looking for one person to tell us everything.

I'm asking for people to simply give out advice and helpful tips. The fact of the matter is that a basic OW class can't teach people everything in advance and I don't expect it to, but my original idea for this thread came when I was reading all the threads in Accidents and Mishaps. I figured a thread like this with a long list of helpful tips in advance that anyone could read before going out into the water and experiencing something wrong firsthand would be a great way to help prevent those Accidents and Mishaps. Instead, I get responses simply stating to "get better instruction from your instructors."