What to add to basic Rec rig?-Thanks.

[Jay Cohen]

DaleC;
Thanks very much for the informative response. This is the second time you've offered advice on my noob posts. both times, very good information.
Jay

 

[TSandM]

tomboyy, Tobin is trying to make the point that, since most people haven't experienced a gear failure, they think the solution to any problem is more or different gear.

It IS possible to dive as a team and not have buddy failures. In the last oh, 500 or so dives with trained people, I have had ONE buddy separation event, due to an upcurrent, and it lasted three or four minutes before we (executing our understood protocol) were reunited. And if you count on your buddy instead of a pony bottle, you have a second person present to sort out entanglements, or navigational confusion, or lend you gas while you sort out a freeflow or some other possibly temporary issue.

There are two, philosophically diametrically opposed approaches to diving. Tobin and I use one; people who approach each dive as a solo event done simply for convenience with another person present use another. You can choose whichever you want, but it is not right to say that diving as a well-functioning team is impractical. It is quite possible to do -- it just takes a commitment, and it takes some work.

 

[tomboyy]

tomboyy, Tobin is trying to make the point that, since most people haven't experienced a gear failure, they think the solution to any problem is more or different gear.

It IS possible to dive as a team and not have buddy failures. In the last oh, 500 or so dives with trained people, I have had ONE buddy separation event, due to an upcurrent, and it lasted three or four minutes before we (executing our understood protocol) were reunited. And if you count on your buddy instead of a pony bottle, you have a second person present to sort out entanglements, or navigational confusion, or lend you gas while you sort out a freeflow or some other possibly temporary issue.

There are two, philosophically diametrically opposed approaches to diving. Tobin and I use one; people who approach each dive as a solo event done simply for convenience with another person present use another. You can choose whichever you want, but it is not right to say that diving as a well-functioning team is impractical. It is quite possible to do -- it just takes a commitment, and it takes some work.

Lynn.. reread my post .. I said TRUE at the begining

 

[tomboyy]

Lynn .. I like your posts and think they add value to SB .... I just have a opinion

tomboyy, Tobin is trying to make the point that, since most people haven't experienced a gear failure, they think the solution to any problem is more or different gear.

It IS possible to dive as a team and not have buddy failures. In the last oh, 500 or so dives with trained people, I have had ONE buddy separation event, due to an upcurrent, and it lasted three or four minutes before we (executing our understood protocol) were reunited.So.. 30 seconds into your separation you have a OOG incident... being self relient is a bad thing ? And if you count on your buddy instead of a pony bottle, you have a second person present to sort out entanglements, or navigational confusion, or lend you gas while you sort out a freeflow or some other possibly temporary issue.

There are two, philosophically diametrically opposed approaches to diving. Tobin and I use one; people who approach each dive as a solo event done simply for convenience with another person present use another. You can choose whichever you want, but it is not right to say that diving as a well-functioning team is impractical.I never said that. It is quite possible to do -- it just takes a commitment, and it takes some work.

 

[TSandM]

Well, when somebody says, "True . . . but in your own words impractical," I read that they are saying that the thing is impractical -- and the thing was diving as a cohesive team.

To think that, in the 3 or 4 minutes of separation I've had in more than 500 dives, that would be the moment I simultaneously experienced a massive gear failure, is more paranoia than I generally indulge in, and I'm pretty risk averse. If those kinds of odds bother you, then a pony bottle is probably good reassurance for you.

 

[tomboyy]

Well, when somebody says, "True . . . but in your own words impractical," I read that they are saying that the thing is impractical -- and the thing was diving as a cohesive team.

To think that, in the 3 or 4 minutes of separation I've had in more than 500 dives, that would be the moment I simultaneously experienced a massive gear failure, is more paranoia than I generally indulge in, and I'm pretty risk averse. If those kinds of odds bother you, then a pony bottle is probably good reassurance for you.

It is...

 

[Mattleycrue76]

I'm into team style diving myself so no pony for me.

Having said that, If was planning to go solo I'd look at a bigger secondary tank. You talked about handing it off to a buddy, which means you plan to sling it. Using an AL30 or even better, a 40 you'll have plenty of gas for unforseen issues even at depth. It will also allow you to get used to the idea of a side mounted deco bottle when you transition to deco diving. Not to mention that you can reuse the bottle. Contrary to popular belief you will hardly notice the difference in size underwater.
You mentioned that you would like to do deep recreational dives in the Great Lakes. This is precisely where you'd have the most benefit from a redundat air suppy. Why you would need a pony for >60ft dives I don't understand. Even with a freeflowing reg you sould be able to ascend ok from less than 60ft.

As for a good piece of gear to buy? Hands down a can light. You'll be amazed at the difference if you don't have one yet.

 

[Anti-Hero]

It is...

Will a pony bottle assist you with a medical event, or an entanglement, or a lost fin, or a buoyancy failure, or a navigational error, or a sudden environmental change like current, upwelling, down welling, etc.?

The better solution is to have a well trained teammate is can help you with all of the above, AND serves as your pony bottle.

 

[dhuskins]

I’d like input on what gear I should add to my basic recreational diving rig. I plan for the near future to say within the rec limit of 130, but would like to have a solid rig that has redundancy, and not have to depend on my buddy in either a OOA or free flow event.

I understand that good gas management, a dive plan, and a bomb proof buddy, the need for ponies or H valves should not be needed, but sh-t happens and I’d like the idea of being able to handle underwater issues. BTW, I plan to be diving the Great Lakes.

If you remain in recreational dive limits, then you have less risks you need to address. Good gas management, a dive plan, blah, blah, blah... Yes, all those things you listed are extremely important and I'm glad you noted them. And yes, in the world of recreational diving, it is not unreasonable to be in a situation where your buddy is not sufficiently skilled/prepared to handle emergencies.

Current gear: Balance BCD, Scuba Pro MK25/S600, Cobra 2, Dry Suit, AL 80.

My thoughts; HP120, 19 CF Pony.

The bigger tank will give me plenty of gas, the pony will take care of free flow reg (w/o the need for H-Valve) and can be handed off if buddy needs air. Plan to only use pony for dives >60’.

Think about it for a moment. Do you really need 120 cu ft of air for a recreational dive? Will your buddy run out before you requiring you to ascend long before you use your 120? Perhaps a 120 is overkill. I dive with my perma-buddy (wife) and we both dive the same size tanks. We choose against the 120 because we realize we are too lazy to constantly switch our tank straps to address the size difference between the 120s and the AL80s we would rent on vacations. The HP100 was more than enough for us, and is the same diameter as the AL80.

I dive with a 6 cu ft pony and my wife is getting a 3 cu ft spare air. We don't need more than that. We figure, if we ever have a tank/first stage failure, we only need enough air to get to our buddy without trying to do so in an air-deprived panic.

I don't understand the need for a 19 cu ft pony in recreational diving. In addition to the extra lugging of weight, it is serious overkill. If you are rec diving in a situation where you have an unobstructed access to the surface, you can probably get to your buddy too. How much secondary air do you need to get to your buddy?

If you want to add to your rec setup, I would instead look at improving your save-a-dive kit.

 

[Mattleycrue76]

Do you really need 120 cu ft of air for a recreational dive?

When doing Deep recreational profiles in cold water this is a very reasonable tank choice. Not the only one, but very reasonable.

We choose against the 120 because we realize we are too lazy to constantly switch our tank straps to address the size difference between the 120s and the AL80s we would rent on vacations.

That's probably not the best justification for choice of tank size I've ever heard IMHO. Also HP 120 tanks are 7.25" diameter - the same as AL80s and HP100s. (HP119s have a 8" diameter)

I dive with a 6 cu ft pony and my wife is getting a 3 cu ft spare air. We don't need more than that. We figure, if we ever have a tank/first stage failure, we only need enough air to get to our buddy without trying to do so in an air-deprived panic.

I don't understand the need for a 19 cu ft pony in recreational diving. In addition to the extra lugging of weight, it is serious overkill. If you are rec diving in a situation where you have an unobstructed access to the surface, you can probably get to your buddy too. How much secondary air do you need to get to your buddy?

Carrying a redundant air source is not about getting to your buddy. Remember the idea here was redundancy. It's about getting back to the surface in a orderly fashion at a safe ascent rate if you've been seperated from your buddy AND you have a catastrophic failure. Doing this from 130 FSW without any incurred deco requires aprox. 30 Cu Ft depending on your assumptions about SAC/RMV. If you're gonna get a pony why not get one that's adequate for any recreational depth?