What the ?#$@ is the deal with LeisurePro?

[Dive Right In Scuba]

Well put....thanks for mentioning my name too I never really see anyone from those places in these discussions....just you and me

 

[laughintom]

I have to jump in here to defend LP a little. Living in NYC, they ARE my LDS. They are also far more responsive and helpful than 80% of the stores here. Several reasons that I shop at LP include: great pricing, huge selection in stock, honest answers to my gear questions, great return policy and good servicing on equipment. Why would I go to LP to try on a mask that my LDS offers to order for me but states they will have in five or six weeks time. I can try it on and pay less by buying at LP. When I ask questions at LP I get an honest answer, even if the answer is "I don't know". When I ask an LDS, the item I'm interested in is garbage if they don't carry it, or is the best equipment in the world if they happen to have a lot in stock or it carries a higher markup. Finally, after taking a regulator servicing class at my LDS, it is the last place I would take my equipment. I have seen the shortcuts taken and usually at twice the price of LP's servicing. My LDS even charges for parts that are provided free from the manufacturer. There is no place in NYC like LP to go in and check out 4 or 5 different reels, or 20 different lights, or even the HydroOptix mask or Mares Liquidskin mask. They are not the greatest place in the world, but it is not nearly as one sided an argument as some would have people believe.

 

[ScottZeagle]

I usually start to reply, get half finished with the post and then say "*&^^ it."

If I had a dollar for every time I have done that....well, you know the rest.

Interesting thread, and several valid arguments.

 

[Cacia]

that is pricing. They offer the same item for 5 or 6 different prices, depending on HOW you find them.

Oh, and other companies are not doing that?

Airlines, insurance....think about it. That is a function of the information age, right down to how your call is routed. What the various price structure might mean is that they are smart, and smart means they can bring me the product for the lowest price.

LDS need to pressure the manufacturers, not threaten the the customers with air-scare scenarios.

The real issue is time and convenience. People don't have time to drive around for every item any more, in modern society.

They are not really rude, they are just New Yorkers. Think of all the rude drivers you are avoiding by clicking away on the internet?

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

The air-scare is just ridiculous...thats a very weak point in the matter that I dont understand why people use......yet its always brought up by a shop or employee

 

[Cacia]

The other thing I will mention is maybe touchy.

Hacidic Jews have been merchants for centuries. They have it down, it is in their culture. And throughout history, their "genius" business models have brought the wrath of others. You can be good, but if you are too good and nobody can touch you...you will start to feel the resentment expressed about being closed on Saturdays and picking on their religious holidays.

I don't even know that it is a conscious thing, but we sure don't ***** if a store is closed on Sunday.

Those guys? Trust me, they are talking business at night over the dinner table. "They" live and breathe commerce, it's hard to compete with that.
If you decide to compete with LP or Adorama, you better have your Wheaties in the morning.

Ain't America great?

 

[PB125]

Geez! I didn't expect to get ths kind of response. BUT! It's given me food for thought...and I'm willing to bend...a little. OK So, I didn't know about the holiday..lesson learned
Mistakes can be made and I can understand that...but, this isn't the first go-round with LP. I buy just about everything On-Line in one fashion or another. And diving isn't my only hobbie. I have purchased SEVERAL items online and no matter how small the order; I was treated fairly ("Yankee Attitude" isn't an excuse for having a Caveman Personality), got what I asked for (no confirmation....just talked to a rep and got what I wanted) and it wasn't used or damaged (Even at a cheap price)....

So if you did not properly prepare for your trip and order last minute items needed from the internet and then don't get them on time. YOUR FAULT.

I hardly call a month to six weeks in advance a last minute order.

If you order something then don't get it on time cause your credit card was rejected. YOUR FAULT.

Hasn't happened yet

If you order something and the wrong item came and you did not call the company to ensure accuracy prior to shipping. YOUR FAULT

This is rediculous. Isn't that what anyone does in the first place. It's called quality control. I call and talk to a rep and order. It should end there.

If you did not fully read the entire web site including the fine print and something is wrong with your order. YOUR FAULT.

Again, I shouldn't have to worry about sending stuff back if it's done correctly the first time. Sure, mistakes are made but it doesn't make it any less frustrating. I don't know about you but my time is pretty valuable. In this case, it's the sender's FAULT. How about checking the item before it's sent. I have to (per the return policy) before it's sent back.

If you don't follow clearly written procedures and your order is incorrect. YOUR FAULT.

This is why I speak to a rep by phone. So there isn't any confusion. I didn't ask for a damaged item and I shouldn't have gotten one.

If you cannot touch it, feel it or try it and you receive it from and internet company then don't like it. YOUR FAULT

Really...DUH!

I am not sympathetic to internet buyers that complain about the service. Usually if the order is messed up it is due to our own fault and complete trusting of these people that we cannot see. IT IS ALL OUR FAULT.

I'm willing to accept faults on my part. However, I'm not willing to accept poor attitude and damaged goods sold as new. My time is as valuable as your time is. hence the expression "Hassle Free". Sit at home in my drawers and order by phone. It comes to the door and whalah....DONE.

 

[mike_s]

MAP is just another term for "price fixing". I understand that it usually traces back to the manufacturer. But at the same time it feels a lot like the "good cop, bad cop" shell game. I don't see too many LDS, with exceptions, really putting much pressure on the manufacturers over it. I suspect most like it privately while being able to beech about it publicly.

Well, most any shop, Scuba or electronics store, is in business to make money. I'm sure everyone wished they could sell at full list price and make maximum profit.

I think the MAP is a load of crap also. If they took it away, I wonder how it would affect the market. It's almost worth opening a new thread just on that I think?

For small items, I usually pay what they charge me at LDS's. (My local one and others). For pricey items, most everyone knows to ask for a better deal. My LDS usually takes care of its customers and gives better than MAP pricing. I usually don't have to ask for a better deal because they beat me to it.

Interesting thread, and several valid arguments.

So is LP on the way to becoming an 'authorized' ZEAGLE Dealer? (or will they just keep cutting the serial number tags out of the BC's ?)

I have to jump in here to defend LP a little. Living in NYC, they ARE my LDS. .

Since this is a concern that LP will run other dive shops out of business (by some people) and LP is your LDS, just curious... do they just sell gear or can you get an air fill there?

I have never critized Leisure Pro for any of their business practices. I think their business model is genius. However, there is one area where I think they play considerable games......that is pricing. They offer the same item for 5 or 6 different prices, depending on HOW you find them. Their advertised price on a particular item at shop.com may be different from the price they offer at amazon, which may be different from the price they offer on overstock.com.

Phil,

but LP isn't the only e-retailer that does 'tricks' like this is it? Many of the big online retailers (not small LDS's) do this don't they? (without naming names directly).

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

LOL....I love it when Mike S. is on the prowl......

 

[Divenomad]

In the interest of full disclosure, I am a dive shop employee. We are competitive, but we don't price match. Valid points were made about LP's business model, but I must say I am getting sick and tired of folks who have bought stuff on the internet and have problems with their purchase and make it my problem . That is, it was delivered broken, or without a warranty, or unassembled and now there is a problem. I am expected to fix their problem, right then, at no charge or they get....upset.

Regulators purchased online, and assembly is expected free of charge.

Regulators purchased online with problems right out of the box, and I am expected to fix it at no charge, even if we are not a dealer.

Tanks purchased online, and visual inspections and fills are expected at no charge.

A D9 purcahsed online, and a person outright furious at me because he discovered the unit would have to be sent back to Finland during the recall, and he would have to pay for shipping and all future battery changes that have to be done in Finland.

Other than the D9, all these occured in the last week, all customers who purchased online, all who had some sort of issue, and all expected me to fix it out of the goodness of my heart. All had their problem fixed, but watched their savings disappear to pay for things that the shop factors into their costs, like regulator assembly, and tests to check for proper performence BEFORE it left the shop.

I've fixed problems with regulators and other gear on the beach and the boat for my customers, and taught people how to use their new computers (purchased online) on the overnight ride to Catalina. I never ask where they got it, but it wasn't from me. Sometimes I've spent and hour or two of my shops time to fully educate them on a product, only to have them purchase it online.

I do this with a smile, because my only edge against online retailers in the quality of my customer service.

For those who only shop price, I respect that, and I understand that their are shops who are...less than perfect.

It's been said here that LP are merchants, and it's what they do. well, I might be a merchant, but I'm in this because I'm a diver, and I love diving. I do my very best to make sure my customers get the very best value for their money, and I personally don't push things I don't believe in. My employer does not always like that, but understands that. Well, sometimes.

I care about what happens to you. I don't want the word to go around about what happened to you, and I don't want to be the one who brings up your body on sunny Sunday afternoon.

An objection has been raised here about jumping through hoops to maintain a warranty. I must respectfully disagree. If you purchased a car, and failed to change the oil for two years, would you expect the dealer to honor the warranty when you blew the engine? Scuba equipment is life support gear. Let me repeat that. Life support. It is a mechanical object subject, like all mechanical objects, to failure due to wear and tear. Proper maintenance is required. Think of the legal liability problems to manufacturers when the families lawyers of a dive accident victim is : "Sue everyone, starting with the ones with the deepest pockets." Warranty and service requirements help protect them. The actual companies operate in a tiny, tiny industry. The outdoor industry dwarfs the dive industry, the and outdoor industry in tiny. The manufactureres could not afford the constant litigation. I think the companies who require regular servicing are both savvy and ethical.

It's been said here we are a service society. No, we are not. By and large, we are a price society. We care little about value.

The service I provide my people ( and yes, my customers are mr my people, they are my divers) has value. Ask yourself what service like mine is worth. If your shop does not provide it, find another shop. Demand better. let the bad shops go under, support the good ones.

And if you have to shop online because you have no shops near you, well, things are waht they are, and I have no grudge. I wish you luck and safe diving, and if you have a problem, I'm happy to help. For a slight fee.

Just my two cents.

-Divenomad