What should I do?
- Thread starter tomboyy
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It sounds like your computer is very conservative. I have exceeded an NDL by two mins once or twicedunce
To give you an idea, I simulated a dive to 24m on my Vytec and had to go 7 minutes beyond the NDL before I got 11 mins of deco.
Worth noting with the Suuntos that the ascent time isnt actually an exact time. The time ONLY applies if you are at the ceiling for the decompression stops. (3m or whatever usually). If you are deeper than this each "minute" on there actually takes longer than a minute in real time.
For example, if you have an ascent time of 10 minutes this means its 10 minutes if you're at 3m. If you stop at say 5m instead it'll take nearer 12-13 (but still count down from 10). Be careful not to get caught out by this in terms of gas and so on.
Example of mine 2 weeks ago, had an ascent time of 32 minutes but due to deep stops and then final stop at 6m instead of 3m that 32 minutes actually took 48 real minutes to clear.
Tom you got a lot of good advice. I didn't get to read everything posted but do have one point to make. Depite planning and integrity the wildcard mentioned was narcosis.
Both you and your buddy need to progressively dive repeatedly deeper to understand your reaction to the deep. Your susceptibility can vary based on circumstances but having a rough idea of your reaction and familiarity with the inevitable impairement is critical.
Other than that the basic rule of not making two accidents out of one applies and heroics should only go so far.
Pete
Both you and your buddy need to progressively dive repeatedly deeper to understand your reaction to the deep. Your susceptibility can vary based on circumstances but having a rough idea of your reaction and familiarity with the inevitable impairement is critical.
Other than that the basic rule of not making two accidents out of one applies and heroics should only go so far.
Pete
Before my first dive to 150' with my Advanced Recreational Trimix instructor, he made a big point that I should not break the max planned depth of 150' under any circumstances. No problem! I was nervous enough about even going to 150'!
We descended to 150', and he ran me through some basic drills (air shares, valve drills...), then we motored along the wall. At about 15 mins into the dive, he suddenly drifted down to 160' and lay motionless on the bottom. I signaled him with my light but he didn't respond. Great. Now what do I do? He told me not to break depth. Was this just another test, or was he really having issues? Of course, test or not, it didn't matter, I had to respond the same. So I checked my gas supply and thought through what the new plan would be at the deeper depth, and I knew I could safely go to the 160'. All this took about three seconds.
I dropped down to him at 160' and shook his leg. He turned over, took the reg out of his mouth, smiled at me and gave me the OK. We ascended up to 150' and I signaled him that we would go to our +10' contingency plan.
After the dive, I asked him if I had done the right thing - breaking depth to go down after him. He said something very wise. He said, no one can tell you when it is right to go after a buddy and put yourself at risk. You assess your situation and make a judgment call. If you go after your buddy or you don't, it is your call to make. And anyone who criticizes your decision, or second guesses it when they were not in your shoes, has never been there themselves.
Should a diver chase down their buddy and put themselves at risk to do so? Only you can make that decision, depending on a myriad of conditions, including, the amount of additional risk, your gas supply, your ability and training to complete a potential rescue, your relationship with the buddy, your mental state, and a slew of other unknowns that will only be assessable at the time of the event. And anyone who criticizes your decision has probably never been there themselves.
That is MHO.
Rick, it sounded like you had a very wise instructor. You were also well taught previously, as you thought and checked everything out first to ensure YOUR safety wasn't going to be jeopardized before you decided to go the extra depth to check on him. Kudos to both you and your instructor.
Beautiful post, Rick.
I'd only add that, if you're diving deep, dark and cold, you should be close enough together that your buddy simply CAN'T get twenty feet below the dive plan before you've been able to catch up, grab a fin and shake it. Having had some bad narcosis myself, I have a lot of respect for its ability to impair thinking and judgment. I'd hate to miscalculate my tolerance one day, and have my buddy just let me swim off into the deep. But we stay close enough together that, if I started off downslope, my buddy would just grab me and shake me and tell me, "No!"
I'd only add that, if you're diving deep, dark and cold, you should be close enough together that your buddy simply CAN'T get twenty feet below the dive plan before you've been able to catch up, grab a fin and shake it. Having had some bad narcosis myself, I have a lot of respect for its ability to impair thinking and judgment. I'd hate to miscalculate my tolerance one day, and have my buddy just let me swim off into the deep. But we stay close enough together that, if I started off downslope, my buddy would just grab me and shake me and tell me, "No!"
Wow, awesome story Rick!!!
for you.
OP
Thanks for the input !
The first instance in my post didn't happen but came close and I wanted to know what to do if something like that did. My buddy started going alittle deeper and acting weird, breaking limbs off and pretending they were machine guns. I had to give him a couple fin tugs before he got that I wanted to go up alittle. That was pretty much it, but, right before as we were desending he was power swimming and starting to get out of sight and right about then my mask floods. I kicked in warp drive caught his fin and he ask me if I was ok. I communicated that I needed a min. I pretty much dropped to bottom and cleared my mask and took a second to get my ***** together. I signaled ok and we went on but after that I was really hyper-alert. I asked him after the dive if he thought he was narced and he said he was fine. It wasn't the playing war that made me wonder if he was narced as much as how long it took him to relay to me that he understood that we were at max depth.
The second did happen and. to one of the posters I missed typed, It was a safety stop not deco and I did keep my 3 mins. while watching them yakking it up
I don't plan on diving solo but I now have a pony, there are pics on here. Now I'm just waiting for the people, boat owners, DM's or whoever to ask me what I'm carrying a pony for? I know someone will...they'll say something like you really don't need that.
That video that one member had a link to that showed a guy doing somersaults and then his reg broke really hit me, especially when he bolted to his buddy.
The first instance in my post didn't happen but came close and I wanted to know what to do if something like that did. My buddy started going alittle deeper and acting weird, breaking limbs off and pretending they were machine guns. I had to give him a couple fin tugs before he got that I wanted to go up alittle. That was pretty much it, but, right before as we were desending he was power swimming and starting to get out of sight and right about then my mask floods. I kicked in warp drive caught his fin and he ask me if I was ok. I communicated that I needed a min. I pretty much dropped to bottom and cleared my mask and took a second to get my ***** together. I signaled ok and we went on but after that I was really hyper-alert. I asked him after the dive if he thought he was narced and he said he was fine. It wasn't the playing war that made me wonder if he was narced as much as how long it took him to relay to me that he understood that we were at max depth.
The second did happen and. to one of the posters I missed typed, It was a safety stop not deco and I did keep my 3 mins. while watching them yakking it up
I don't plan on diving solo but I now have a pony, there are pics on here. Now I'm just waiting for the people, boat owners, DM's or whoever to ask me what I'm carrying a pony for? I know someone will...they'll say something like you really don't need that.
That video that one member had a link to that showed a guy doing somersaults and then his reg broke really hit me, especially when he bolted to his buddy.
Tom, I can't believe a dive op or DM would ever ask why you are carrying a pony for. If they do, run to another dive op that believes in being prepared for anything. Someone once told me: a mediocre diver has three plans for all expected emergencies....a good diver is someone who has thee plans for unexpected emergencies. There is no such thing as being over prepared for things that can go wrong. Living through something unexpected is much more desirable than being macho and thinking you can handle anything that can be thrown at you.
Not everyone who gets narced is aware that they are so. That's why when one does an AOW course they throw something at you to show you that you may not be aware of things that you think you may be. Actions always speak louder than words (some people may even be afraid to admit they get narced, erroneously thinking that makes them a lesser diver).
Communication is the utmost of importance. Noticing what is going on during the dive is extremely important. The sooner one questions their buddy about an unknown the better (both to determine the buddy's state of mind and intentions). Changes can always be made, but both parties need to be aware of the conditions and reasons why the changes could/would occur. Safety is number one......everything else is secondary. Make plans and have a plan "B" and "C" for various scenerios. Let your buddy know that you will call the dive if at any time you feel any violations are being made, then follow through if need be. Diving is too much fun to take the risk of missing months or more of not diving because of an accident that was preventable.
Not everyone who gets narced is aware that they are so. That's why when one does an AOW course they throw something at you to show you that you may not be aware of things that you think you may be. Actions always speak louder than words (some people may even be afraid to admit they get narced, erroneously thinking that makes them a lesser diver).
Communication is the utmost of importance. Noticing what is going on during the dive is extremely important. The sooner one questions their buddy about an unknown the better (both to determine the buddy's state of mind and intentions). Changes can always be made, but both parties need to be aware of the conditions and reasons why the changes could/would occur. Safety is number one......everything else is secondary. Make plans and have a plan "B" and "C" for various scenerios. Let your buddy know that you will call the dive if at any time you feel any violations are being made, then follow through if need be. Diving is too much fun to take the risk of missing months or more of not diving because of an accident that was preventable.
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