What rig would be better for me?

[ucfdiver]

... if I didn't have redundant buoyancy ... most of the world dives that way, yanno.

I repeat ... this ain't the cave forum ... think outside your "world" for a moment ... SM is showing up in lots of places outside of caves these days ... including some tropical destinations ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Redundant buoyancy is even more important in OW than in a cave. But for agreement sake, if someone wants to be an idiot and not have a redundant source of buoyancy throwing away breathable gas might be a good idea. Reminds me of a coat hanger abortion instead of using a condom, but hey we're in agreement now...

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Redundant buoyancy is even more important in OW than in a cave. But for agreement sake, if someone wants to be an idiot and not have a redundant source of buoyancy throwing away breathable gas might be a good idea. Reminds me of a coat hanger abortion instead of using a condom, but hey we're in agreement now...

Ah me ... I figured you'd resort to colorful language eventually ... it's the only way you know how to have a conversation.

You never answered my previous question ... in an OW circumstance, if dumping a tank gets me to the surface, what's the downside?

Before you go calling me an idiot, why don't you try answering the question?

And just so you know where I'm coming from, I'm not necessarily saying your way isn't the best option ... I'm just not a fan of saying "never" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[ucfdiver]

Ah me ... I figured you'd resort to colorful language eventually ... it's the only way you know how to have a conversation.

You never answered my previous question ... in an OW circumstance, if dumping a tank gets me to the surface, what's the downside?

Before you go calling me an idiot, why don't you try answering the question?

And just so you know where I'm coming from, I'm not necessarily saying your way isn't the best option ... I'm just not a fan of saying "never" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I answered it. Do you really want to ascend lopsided? At max penetration, or max BT (depending on shore dive vs boat dive) you've got roughly 2x the gas required to get home safe. Cut that in half and leave yourself unbalanced and how do you think this story ends?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I answered it. Do you really want to ascend lopsided? At max penetration, or max BT (depending on shore dive vs boat dive) you've got roughly 2x the gas required to get home safe. Cut that in half and leave yourself unbalanced and how do you think this story ends?

Hmmm ... now I'm gonna have to test that theory. I'm not convinced it's as bad as you claim ... in fact, I'm fairly sure it's not. As for ascending unbalanced ... I'm certain that is a non-issue. And once on the surface, what do I need the gas in my cylinders for? I've got cubic miles of breathable gas. In a pinch, I'd dump the other tank and swim to boat or shore. Without tanks, I'm damn sure not gonna sink and drown.

How do I think that story ends? I swim in, grab another rig, and go retrieve my cylinder(s).

Again, I'm not saying redundant buoyancy ain't the best solution ... but I think you're overstating the "danger" of dumping a tank ... and it'd be interesting to find out who's right.

I'll give it a try tomorrow and let ya know how it works out ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[ucfdiver]

Hmmm ... now I'm gonna have to test that theory. I'm not convinced it's as bad as you claim ... in fact, I'm fairly sure it's not. As for ascending unbalanced ... I'm certain that is a non-issue. And once on the surface, what do I need the gas in my cylinders for? I've got cubic miles of breathable gas. In a pinch, I'd dump the other tank and swim to boat or shore. Without tanks, I'm damn sure not gonna sink and drown.

How do I think that story ends? I swim in, grab another rig, and go retrieve my cylinder(s).

Again, I'm not saying redundant buoyancy ain't the best solution ... but I think you're overstating the "danger" of dumping a tank ... and it'd be interesting to find out who's right.

I'll give it a try tomorrow and let ya know how it works out ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I'd love to see a video of you doing something fast, maybe 15min of deco while maintaining stop depth with only 1 sm tank. Do you mind video'ing your adventure tomorrow?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I'd love to see a video of you doing something fast, maybe 15min of deco while maintaining stop depth with only 1 sm tank. Do you mind video'ing your adventure tomorrow?

Overhead changes the mindset ... whether it's physical or virtual ... I do believe I made it clear I was talking about a non-overhead OW dive.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[ucfdiver]

Overhead changes the mindset ... whether it's physical or virtual ... I do believe I made it clear I was talking about a non-overhead OW dive.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

So your whole argument here is that on a dive where it's safe to shoot up like a cork that you can ditch a tank? That's...useful?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

So your whole argument here is that on a dive where it's safe to shoot up like a cork that you can ditch a tank? That's...useful?

Actually I'm trying really hard not to have an argument ... I'm just skeptical of your claims.

Who knows ... you might be right. How would I know, except by trying it? I'll let ya know how it works out ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Sidemounting 80s or 72s won't lopside you with a single tank on one side... but you can swim them up, so you wouldn't ditch one anyway.

I tried a single HP130 sidemounted once, it was friggin horrible. Could I manage it? Probably. I think I'd do everything I can to NOT get in that situation to begin with though... like redundant bouyancy.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I'm with ya on that, Matt ... but I do like to know what's possible.

Met up with Spatman (Matt) this morning and told him I wanted to start out with this "ditch" exercise. Since I've never done it before, I figured it would be prudent to do this in shallow water ... just to see what happened. Rather than ditch a tank, I decided to just dive the left tank ... leaving the right one in a few feet of water for later retrieval. To simulate a wing failure I ran the inflator hose to the drysuit ... although with that much less weight I ended up having to vacuum-pack the suit ... but I wanted at least some bail-out for the experiment.

I swam around a bit with just the one tank (HP100) ... maybe a couple hundered feet ... just to see what it would feel like. It wasn't particularly difficult, although it did make me work my right leg (the side missing the tank) in a way that was more tiring than usual in order to maintain reasonable trim, both horizontally and laterally. But it was doable, and I think in a pinch I could swim like that for a long way if I had to. We swam downslope from a depth of 5 feet to a depth of 25 feet. I turned to face Matt and signaled to go up. I wanted him to get a shot of my depth and time on the video, but from what I could see on the LCD I don't think it came out ... too bright at shallow depth. Anyway I went up a few feet, stopped for about 20 seconds, then proceeded to the surface at a pretty measured pace. Above about 8 feet I got floaty, but below that I had no difficulty controlling my position and ascent rate. From 20 feet to the surface took about a minute ... which is not exactly what I'd consider "cork" speed.

Overall what I achieved was to satisfy myself that it's doable. It wasn't pretty ... it wasn't relaxing ... but frankly it was quite like the first time I ever used a deco or stage bottle ... and a hell of a lot easier than the first time I ever strapped on a set of doubles. Granted it was a brief ... and staged ... exercise ... but most skills are the first time you try them. I think if I practiced it, I could easily hold a stop like that for several minutes if I needed to.

Now ... to reiterate, just so there's no mistaking my motives here ... I do not anticipate having to drop a bottle in an emergency. Particularly when doing a dive involving any kind of overhead. I'm a firm believer in redundancy ... which would include redundant buoyancy. But I also like to know what options are available, and what my capability would be if I should ever have to consider using it. I think this is something I'll practice more ... just because I can ... until I get completely comfortable swimming and ascending with only one cylinder. Then if, for any reason, I should ever have to ditch one, it won't be a crisis ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)