What regulator Kills the most divers?

[ZzzKing]

You'll never get parts for life with an attitude like THAT!

I don't agree with the logic of servicing the reg every year. First off is why tear into a perfectly good working part just because your years up. Also think of this. What is a regulator, it's a demand valve, similar to your kitchen sink faucet. Do you change the faucets O-rings every year? no. When do you change them? when the faucet leaks, and how often does this happen? 10 years? am I correct. I bet the wife remodels the kitchen before the faucet leaks but thats an upgrade not a repair.
Still with me? good, my quarter hasen't ran out yet.
I think you will get my point, buy a reg, use it till it leaks, sell it on e-bay. I'll do the math on a reg I use to own a long time ago for an example.
Cost of reg $50 used 9 years before it freeflowed then sold it for $50. Total cost for reg ownwership including maintenence, $0. If I had it servived every year at $100 a pop for 9 years thats $900. Not enough to remodel the kitcken for the wife but plenty to buy a new reg.
quarters up

 

[Hoyden]

One of my arguements is that failures after service are not rare. There is an intercept point where failures caused by not servicing equipment intersects with the rate of failures caused by inept service. The determination of this intersecting point is a key function of the rework component of Cost of Quality.

Failure after poor service is not rare - either find a decent reg tech (kind of like finding a good mechanic) or learn to properly service your own. If you want to service your own, please take a course somewhere or at least get some basic instruction from some one who has - then invest in a few basic regulator service tools (IP gauge, magnahelic gauge and appropriate tools for your reg brand). In the short term, servicing your regs can be more costly than having them done by an authorized dealer under warranty. IMO, in the long term, knowing how everything works is worth the time and effort. When I wanted to work on my vehicles, I went to the local college and took classes - now I am comfortable doing almost anything to my cars and trucks - rebuild a motor, I'm stupid, change r&p gears, replace clutches, front end alignment, etc. I have a basement full of tools and the only big things that I don't have are a lift and a brake lathe. I know where to borrow those when I absolutely have to have them. When I wanted to learn to work on my regs, first I bought a cheap used one on ebay that I could take apart and put back together without risking my regular equipment. When I was comfortable with that, I searched around until I found an appropriate series of courses in equipment service and took those. Commercial dive schools, some local dive shops and some dive instructor centers offer this kind of instruction. A quick google search will turn up lots of options. Counting instruction, parts and tools, I probably have a just over a grand in reg service, but I consider it money well spent. I have a regulator service bench in my "scuba" room that is as well eqiupped as most LDSs and access to a reg service area that has every bell and whistle you could ever want. When I put one of my regs in my mouth ( regardless of brand - I have Scubapros, Apeks, Sherwoods, Aqualung and OMS) - I am sure that it is in good condition.

If your original question was, "which reg is safer?" I'd go with basic piston firsts like Sherwoods and basic Scubapros and basic non-adjsuable seconds -- they really have a lot fewer parts and can be rebuilt quickly by anyone with even rudimentary skills - on a bouncing boat, if needed. They may not breathe quite as well as a balanced, evironmentally sealed top of the line adjustable 10 different ways, cost a fortune regulator, but they work, pretty much every time. Kind of like the difference between a brand new Hummer and a 40 year old Jeep (okay, a 40 year old WillysCJ2A) - The Hummer is alot sexier, faster and way more comfortable, but if you had to pick which one you wanted to work on and count on when the chips are down and parts aren't handy... well you could rebuild the willys with scrounged, booty fabbed parts and get it going- it has some of the most simple parts ever used on a 4wd - if the Hummer breaks (say because you had a wheel spinning in the air and hit brakes and popped a front axle shaft - a common failure) you are SOL unless you have fair selection of tools and the specific parts needed.

JMO,

Jackie

 

[redacted]

Failure after poor then invest in a few basic regulator service tools (IP gauge, magnahelic gauge and appropriate tools for your reg brand).

What is that magnahelic gauge going to do for me that I can't accomplish in the bathroom sink with a good understanding of how my reg works and a little patience? Sure, I don't know if it was cracking at .6 inches or .8 inches, but I can easily tell when it is about 1 inch and the next 30 degree turn sets it back to leaking. I've always though that was more than adequate for the DIYer.

 

[captain]

A bunch of fancy expensives tool are not needed to service most regulators. A 6 inch ruler, food coloring, water and some clear plastic tubing will make a U tube manometer that is just as accurate as a magnahelic gauge. A lot of special tools are just a variation of a standard hand that can be modified with a grinder or bent for the job. I use a 3/8" or 7/16" 6" long fine thread bolt screwed into the HP or LP ports as a handle for screwing or unscrewing yoke nut or turret bolts. Sometimes copper tubing fittings can be used to make adapters for connecting an IP gauge.

 

[superstar]

I was surfing OSHA's web site and could not find anything on scube regulater servicing. Therefore yearly maintenence must be a safty feel good.

 

[captain]

I was surfing OSHA's web site and could not find anything on scube regulater servicing. Therefore yearly maintenence must be a safty feel good.

Unless it is commercial diving OSHA regulations wouldn't apply. OSHA regulations generally apply to employers responsibility to provide a safe work place to protect employees not the public in general.

 

[Hoyden]

A bunch of fancy expensives tool are not needed to service most regulators. A 6 inch ruler, food coloring, water and some clear plastic tubing will make a U tube manometer that is just as accurate as a magnahelic gauge. A lot of special tools are just a variation of a standard hand that can be modified with a grinder or bent for the job. I use a 3/8" or 7/16" 6" long fine thread bolt screwed into the HP or LP ports as a handle for screwing or unscrewing yoke nut or turret bolts. Sometimes copper tubing fittings can be used to make adapters for connecting an IP gauge.

I bought my magnahelic gauge for under $15 - sure alot simpler than setting up a tub of water or some messy tube with colored water - IP gauge = about $6 in parts - I missed the fancy expensive tool part in my post. I will suggest that if you are using bolts as reg handles (as I do) that you track down a brass bolt - a little safer/easier on your first stage. I believe very strongly in using the right tool for the right job - doesn't mean that it has to be an expensive tool and many specialty tools for regulator service are tools of convenience/time saving - in other words they are not required for the job, they just make it easier/faster. Many of these can be put together/fabricated for a very small cost. For example, when you are changing the o-rings on an hp-swivel (like your spg), you can buy a specialty tool for $6.50 - I made one at no cost from a ferrule from a small paint brush that had out lived its usefulness and a scrap piece of plastic that was left over from some other project. The only really expensive tools that I use are good torque wrenches - I use torque wrenches anytime that I tighten a fastner for which torque specs are available. It all depends on your preferences and tolerances for compromise.

Jackie

 

[redacted]

$15 is a heck of a deal. Even this cheap DIYer would have to splurge for that one. I'm not quite as disciplined as you are with the torque wrenchs, but the yoke nuts and turret bolts always get the torque wrenches. I did test the hose and plug connections with a torque wrench just to help calibrate my "feel" a bit. Hand tight and a bit more seems OK to me. The "a bit more" turned out to be between an 1/12 and 1/4 turn depending mostly on the age (set) and also in the hardness of the o-ring involved.

 

[Aquadoc68]

# 1 Regs don't kill divers. Impopssible for a regulator to do so. Dumb Ace sickness does. #2 Service the equipment yourself then you have no one to blame but yourself or the rare case of bad parts if a failure occurs. I rebuilt my Con XXI in '02 (I am certified by USD and Dive Lab for Kirby Morgan equip.) did not dive it until last month and had a leak inside OP disk. Nothing bad mind you just a trickle BUT..... pulled it apart and found a "wrinkle" in the disk best guess. but replaced it and she is fine now. #3 Don't dive beyond what you are comfortable breath holding up from JAJA I KNOW NO BH ON ASCENT BUT ya get my point hey

 

[james croft]

A bunch of fancy expensives tool are not needed to service most regulators. A 6 inch ruler, food coloring, water and some clear plastic tubing will make a U tube manometer that is just as accurate as a magnahelic gauge. A lot of special tools are just a variation of a standard hand that can be modified with a grinder or bent for the job. I use a 3/8" or 7/16" 6" long fine thread bolt screwed into the HP or LP ports as a handle for screwing or unscrewing yoke nut or turret bolts. Sometimes copper tubing fittings can be used to make adapters for connecting an IP gauge.

Captain has the same philosophy as I do. I use the tubing and ruler gauge. It is probably more accurate than a magnahelic guage that should get calibrated now and then. Since you are actually measuring inches of water instead of relying on a guage, you know your cracking pressure is exact. I get a lot of satisfaction of doing something for free that other folks pay for.