What regulator Kills the most divers?

[Snowbear]

What regulator Kills the most divers?

The one that's attached to the empty scuba tank

 

[IGM]

Hi gcolbert,

I’m new to diving and therefore not qualified to comment about regulators, or anything else for that matter. But your question is a valid one from an engineering/quality point of view. The companies that manufacture these products have to comply with regulations and directives that outline the minimum requirements that must be met prior to public distribution of these equipments, especially when safety is involved. I noticed a CE Mark on the regulators that I have used, indicating compliance with applicable norms (EN250 and Directive 86/686/EEC). Part of these regulations deal with instructions for use, manuals, and warranty information. When a manufacturer recommends a minimum interval for service, it is required to have objective evidence of the equipment functioning as intended for that period of time. The testing should be done at worse case scenarios.
If you have enough knowledge about the functioning of the regulators and the risks associated with reducing or increasing the interval of servicing based on the use you are giving it, then it would be okay to change the interval as you estimate appropriate. Keep in mind that the manufacturer warranty is usually void when you decide not to follow its recommendations. Also, you can contact the manufacturer and ask for additional information pertaining to the service interval recommended. I’m not sure they will be forthcoming with this information, but you can try.

About COQ, again that is a function mainly performed by quality engineers at the manufacturer and in my opinion, it will not help you much, as a consumer.

IG

 

[Iruka]

Touching on a point alluded to my others, if you consider your brain the "regulator" of your behavior, I'd say that is by far the one more likely to be responsible for diver deaths. I'm sure there are cases where unexpected equipment failure occurs, and may lead to death, but as to which brands are more prone to this, I have no idea. An example of panic leading to death is the often-quoted statistic that most dead divers are found with their weight belts still on...probably not pertinent in embolism or heart attack scenarios, but in many cases indicate that an improper reaction to a problem caused the situation to escalate.

My feeling is that if any brand was known to be defective to the point it caused deaths, it would be quickly recalled/taken off the market. With dive gear, certainly some is better than others, some have features that appeal to different people, but I don't think it's likely that any of it is truly dangerous.

 

[mahjong]

"I do change the oil in my car every 3000 miles. This frequency was determined through a great deal of scientific failure research. I don't have my engine rebuilt every June because I bought the car that month."

I thought it was 3000 (some say 2000) miles "OR" 3 (some say 2) months, whichever comes first?

Especially if you dive in salt water, corrosion is certainly one good reason for an annual service--that ultrasonic cleaning works wonders. Another good reason: they don't make things today like they used to--technologies have improved, but quality of craftsmanship and materials might actually be off a notch, in part because of corporate culture.

 

[spectrum]

There are scientifically proven and accepted methods for determining equipment (not just talking about scuba) maintenance schedules. When Caterpillar says that a bearing needs to be changed after 5,000 hours, they aren't just guessing. What I am looking for is the research that shows that the yearly service recommended by my LDS is something more than just witchcraft.

When catapillar publishes those numbers they have a caveat of propper maintenance and use.

User care of scuba gear is so varriable and salt water so destructive that even one year is too long for some divers. I'm sure a good part of the rationale is as simple as that.

Pete

 

[gcolbert]

Hi gcolbert,
... CE Mark on the regulators that I have used, indicating compliance with applicable norms (EN250 and Directive 86/686/EEC). Part of these regulations deal with instructions for use, manuals, and warranty information. When a manufacturer recommends a minimum interval for service, it is required to have objective evidence of the equipment functioning as intended for that period of time.
...
About COQ, again that is a function mainly performed by quality engineers at the manufacturer and in my opinion, it will not help you much, as a consumer.

IG

First, thanks for understanding my point. I was hoping that someone could point out a U.S. equivalant. At least the EEC seems to have applied some control standards in this area.

COQ is most frequently used in manufacturing, but the concepts are equally valid in any maintenance operation. I'm involved in equipment maintenance scheduling for coal mining equipment, where people die if you get things wrong. Our COQ program is central to what we do. My particular interest here is the rework costs.

Undoubtable, there are a lot of good dive equipment people out there. I don't see reports of regulator failures killing divers. My experience is that on the two occasions that I have had my equipment serviced, it came out of the dive shop in a condition where it should not have been used. On one occasion this was discovered before leaving for the trip (Second stage not properly assembled). On the other, the regulator wouldn't stop free flowing, costing a dive on Palancar and service at a dive shop in San Miguel. ScubaPro equipment serviced by a ScubaPro authorized technician. This lead me to sell my equipment and just use rental gear, rented at the site..

So now I'm considering buying gear again. However, I'm considering the Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) before just plunking down the bucks. It still looks like it is more cost effective to rent (2 weeks tropical diving per year) than to own unless I can get a better deal than $90 per year for service (even with free parts).

 

[vondo]

I do change the oil in my car every 3000 miles. This frequency was determined through a great deal of scientific failure research. I don't have my engine rebuilt every June because I bought the car that month.

You mean you base this on good marketing by Quaker State, et. al. As others have said, there are studies in rather extreme conditions showing that 3000 is way overkill. Also, most of the manufacturer recommendations people are quoting are probably the "heavy use" numbers: pulling a trailer, high-temps, continual stop and go, etc. Personally, I follow this schedule (which is every 5000 for my vehicle) but I'm under no delusions that I have to do this or my engine will die prematurely.

 

[captain]

If your concern is regulator failure after service and you are planning on buy a new regulator my suggestion would be to buy from a manufacture that will sell you parts and manuals and also provide training in service if you feel you need it. Regulators are fairly simple devices and anyone with some mechanical apptitude can service them. I believe DiveRite, Abysmal Dive Systems and Apollo Sports are now selling parts and service instruction to individuals.

 

[ktrjc]

Regulators don't kill people...people kill people.

No, wait, that's guns.

Bullets kill people. Guns are just hunks of metal and plastic. Kind of like a regulator.

 

[superstar]

This is how I see it. The dive shops are very good at selling retail not repairing regulators. If they were mechanicly inclined they would not be selling retail. The good news is that regulators are very simple so you don't need to be a master mechanic to change an o-ring therefore failure after service is rare.