What really is an "Advanced Open Water" diver?

[Nemrod]

I am not sure what an AOW diver is. I do know that a plastic card does not one make. I think I am one. I think 50 plus years of varied diving, yeah, I think I qualify. Survivorship Bias aside, pretty good odds I am not going to die today diving. Not yet.

I tell you what though, I do not mind being asked for a card but I do not like being asked how old I am, especially via the phone and really not much in person either. I swim, cycle and run with people less than half my age and seem to keep up okay. I would really not like to have someone who just graduated from being a teenager judging my abilities or physical capabilities based on my age, which admittedly are not what they used to be but are still sufficient and probably more substantial than the person asking. I used to think, like most all young folks, that I was invincible. I now know that I am not and that probably makes me a safer diver. I have become quite risk adverse. N

 

[jonhall]

Cenotes—cavern diving. Safe for AOW diver?

This came back up on recent posts, but makes me rethink something I wrote a few posts back - "the only truly confusing thing about AOW and thus OW is the depth limit." I stand corrected! Maybe I should have written the "most confusing." There were good responses for the OP of that thread, but the idea in the title that just being AOW could make the difference as too if it is safe or not makes me wonder...

This was the title from an earlier thread (different OP): Chandelier Cave - safe for AOW diver? From another poster's comment in this thread, one might be able to make a case that just reading titles like this could make a diver think AOW is more than what it is.

It led me to another response to the original question of this thread - An Advanced Open Water diver is a diver who has simply done a few more dives than an OW diver still keeping them at a recreational diver level. It sure seems easy enough that one could use some common sense and be able to acknowledge safe diving practices for themselves - but if that were the case, we couldn't have so much fun here on SB!

 

[tursiops]

Thanks to ScubaBoard, and its members' inputs, I know I have learned more about diving than I would get from the vast majority of AOW courses.

In my experience, people experience neutral trim like riding a bicycle; it is an epiphany. Hard to learn to ride a bicycle from an internet forum.
You don't experience narcosis from an internet forum....although you wonder sometimes when reading a post if the writer might be narced.
Compass skills -- with the task-loading that comes from following the compass, counting fin kicks, maintaining constant depth, and keeping situational awareness -- are not easily experienced on an internet forum. Etc.
In my experience (I'm 80 and have been a Master Instructor for over 20 years), AOW is most useful to newish divers, who have not already "learned everything" or think they have.
Once again, the purpose of AOW is neither to "fix OW" or to "train an advanced diver" but rather to give someone a sampler of some specialties that might interest them in their future diving activities, and perhaps give them some skills they did not have before.

 

[Wibble]

My point is that PADI is being quite straightforward about what the AOW is. Read what you wrote, quoting them: "The Advanced Open Water Diver course is all about advancing your skills..."

And they deliberately chose the most misleading word they could to describe "Additional Open Water" training. Advanced it is not.

The problem is that people at that level don't know enough to be able to distinguish between "advanced" and "novice". I'm advanced I am, I've got a stiff ticket wot says it...

Definitely with BSAC on this one. An advanced diver is highly experienced, not a 10 dive novice (or a 70 dive DiveMASTER for that matter)

The real challenge is that "most people" have never undertaken something like diving where there's a massive culture of training and progression for safety. Of all the things I've done before, none of them required more than one basic course to get good enough to go away and play: motorcycling, dingy and yacht sailing, powerboat driving, cycling... Little did I realise when I started just how many courses there were and the cost of getting competent - OW, AOW, Nitrox, Fundies, Rescue Diver, ANDP+H, Normoxic, Solo, Cavern, Intro to Cave, MOD1, MOD2 --- arrrggghhh. Even now I'm still not "advanced"

 

[Altamira]

In my experience, people experience neutral trim like riding a bicycle; it is an epiphany. Hard to learn to ride a bicycle from an internet forum.
You don't experience narcosis from an internet forum....although you wonder sometimes when reading a post if the writer might be narced.
Compass skills -- with the task-loading that comes from following the compass, counting fin kicks, maintaining constant depth, and keeping situational awareness -- are not easily experienced on an internet forum. Etc.
In my experience (I'm 80 and have been a Master Instructor for over 20 years), AOW is most useful to newish divers, who have not already "learned everything" or think they have.
Once again, the purpose of AOW is neither to "fix OW" or to "train an advanced diver" but rather to give someone a sampler of some specialties that might interest them in their future diving activities, and perhaps give them some skills they did not have before.

@tursiops. I usually agree with your comments, but in this case, I will challenge you by stating I did not say that the internet taught me how to dive, experience narcosis, navigate with a compass, or any other skills I have developed over a lifetime of high task loaded activities. Nor do I know everything, or think I have, which was the basis of my appreciation of ScubaBoard posts. As far as task loading is concerned, if you think underwater compass skills, counting kicks, while maintaining constant depth and situational awareness is a high task loading environment, imagine leading several formations of high performance jet fighters on a 100' above the ground, 600 knot high speed low level navigation mission and attack profile. I did not learn how to do that on the internet either. However, like fighter mission debriefings, and even listening to the "there I was" stories at the bar on a Friday night, this board is especially valuable in hearing different perspectives and techniques that might help make all of us better divers. As far as I am concerned, learning and improving dive or any skills are not "one and done" activities; instead, a never ending endeavor. As I said in my opening statement, I usually agree with your comments, and sincerely hope I have the opportunity to meet you some day.

Edit: I do fully agree with your last sentence.

 

[tursiops]

@tursiops. I usually agree with your comments, but in this case, I will challenge you by stating I did not say that the internet taught me how to dive, experience narcosis, navigate with a compass, or any other skills I have developed over a lifetime of high task loaded activities. Nor do I know everything, or think I have, which was the basis of my appreciation of ScubaBoard posts. As far as task loading is concerned, if you think underwater compass skills, counting kicks, while maintaining constant depth and situational awareness is a high task loading environment, imagine leading several formations of high performance jet fighters on a 100' above the ground, 600 knot high speed low level navigation mission and attack profile. I did not learn how to do that on the internet either. However, like fighter mission debriefings, and even listening to the "there I was" stories at the bar on a Friday night, this board is especially valuable in hearing different perspectives and techniques that might help make all of us better divers. As far as I am concerned, learning and improving dive or any skills are not "one and done" activities; instead, a never ending endeavor. As I said in my opening statement, I usually agree with your comments, and sincerely hope I have the opportunity to meet you some day.

Edit: I do fully agree with your last sentence.

My fear is that your comment I quoted will be misinterpreted by those on SB who constantly denigrate formal training and AOW in particular as being worthless. They seem to believe that everything can be learned by reading and listening. I tried to give some counter-examples, not intending to imply they were for you. Rather, they were for those who misread and misinterpret-- perhaps willfully-- what you wrote. Sorry for any confusion.

 

[boulderjohn]

And they deliberately chose the most misleading word they could to describe "Additional Open Water" training. Advanced it is not.

Why do so many people think that PADI invented the AOW certification? They absolutely did not. They absolutely did not create the name.

AOW was created by Los Angeles County . They saw that many divers were quitting diving soon after getting OW certification and thought that by exposing them to different kinds of diving experiences, they get keep them interested in diving.

Then NAUI joined in and offered it.

Both of them called it "Advanced" because it was the most advanced training available (other than instructor) at that time.

PADI did not add the course until later. They had nothing to do with creating that name. In fact, for several decades they tried to get away from that name by calling the course "Adventures in Diving."

 

[scubadada]

I think it has gone downhill since its creation. Take a look at the LA County program LA County Scuba’s Advanced Diver Program Provides An Exceptional Value, Quality Education | California Diver Magazine Questions, you might ask @azstinger11 I will always regret leaving California in 1980, without finding time to take the LA Co. ADP . My basic scuba training with LA Co in 1970 was excellent.

 

[MichaelMc]

Why do so many people think that PADI invented the AOW certification? They absolutely did not. They absolutely did not create the name.

AOW was created by Los Angeles County . They saw that many divers were quitting diving soon after getting OW certification and thought that by exposing them to different kinds of diving experiences, they get keep them interested in diving.

Then NAUI joined in and offered it.

Both of them called it "Advanced" because it was the most advanced training available (other than instructor) at that time.

PADI did not add the course until later. They had nothing to do with creating that name. In fact, for several decades they tried to get away from that name by calling the course "Adventures in Diving."

When LA Country created this advanced class, was it a 10 week, 100 hour and 14 dive thing as described in the above article?

 

[TMHeimer]

All good points by Wibble, boulderjohn & MichaelMc. John pointed out PADI didn't invent it. I guess the name could be changed. We don't want people with 9 dives thinking they are advanced. We also have special ed classes for those folks.