What really is an "Advanced Open Water" diver?

[scubadada]

When LA Country created this advanced class, was it a 10 week, 100 hour and 14 dive thing as described in the above article?

Still is, ask @azstinger11

 

[MichaelMc]

Still is, as @azstinger11

Ok, so if LA County's advanced class was the origin of the AOW class name for NAUI and Padi; and LA's was 10 weeks, 100 hours and 14 dives; and the new ones are much shorter and 5 dives; it seems they took a name from one thing and put it on a very very different thing. If that is the case, we can't blame the advanced name of AOW on LA County.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Ok, so if LA County's advanced class was the origin of the AOW class name for NAUI and Padi; and LA's was 10 weeks, 100 hours and 14 dives; and the new ones are much shorter and 5 dives; it seems they took a name from one thing and put it on a very very different thing. If that is the case, we can't blame the advanced name of AOW on LA County.

That's what makes it so funny reading the comment about PADI not being the one who invented the AOW program. What LA Country invented and what PADI implemented are at opposite ends of the spectrum. This isn't bashing as this is simple fact.

 

[azstinger11]

Just for a point of clarity, LA County currently uses the term Advanced Diver Program (ADP). I'm not sure if/when they used Advanced Open Water nomenclature.

From my ADP class (and it hasn't changed significantly to my knowledge), the following are true. It was 13 sessions (frequently with morning and afternoon session on the same day but counted as one), plus graduation. We covered Altitude Diving, Night Diving, "wreck" diving, deep diving, navigation, marine ID, basic rescue, skin diving, search and recovery, lift bags, oceanography/dive condition forecasting, dive fitness, multiple different shore type entries, lifeguard services familiarity, alternative gear familiarization (double hoses, full face masks, etc). In water it was 6 pool sessions, 5 beach sessions, 1 lake sessions, 1 boat session. Obviously no certifications in anything other than the ADP card, and some of those topics are more of a familiarity than being fully certified to do in an independent course.

ADP is extremely tailored around diving, with a focus on shore diving, in the Southern California region. I don't think its the end all be all of instruction/diving, but I think its an excellent program for the region. My PADI AoW course was a laughable joke in comparison and done in the same region. The La County community is great, so great that I was silly enough to do their instructors course and am about 3/4 of the way done (but have been since March 2020....stupid COVID).

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

@azstinger11

What does your card say?

 

[azstinger11]

@azstinger11

What does your card say?

Screen Shot 2021-09-09 At 12.36.59 PM

• azstinger11
• Sep 9, 2021

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

This discussion reminds me of the disastrous naming of different signaling speed for USB. 1.5 MHz is low-speed. No issue there. 12 MHz is full-speed. A little weird, but obviously faster. There wasn't supposed to be a USB 2.0 as there was 1394. But Apple killed that technology with first $1/port and then lowering to $0.25 a port.

So USB 2.0 introduced 480 MHz signaling as high-speed.

Hmm, what's faster full or high?

Then oh God, USB 3.0 was introduced with 5 GHz signaling at SuperSpeed. Wasn't supposed to happen because of Thunderbolt. But despite the tech marketing guy coming from USB, he forgot how to introduce a technology, so that hasn't gone as well as it should.

Oh, but that's not fast enough, let's get rid of USB 3.0, rename it USB 3.1, add USB 3.2 that adds 10 GHz signaling. Now we have Gen 1 and Gen 2 for SuperSpeed.

I haven't looked at the USB 4 spec. I would like for it to say whatever signaling rate it introduces to be "Super Duper Speed"

Brad Hosler (my old boss who is the reason USB 1.x and 2.0 were so successful) is spinning in his grave.

USB has become so chaotic.

I've never thought of similarities to USB and scuba diving instruction, but I guess there are other products/industries that are similar as well.

 

[tursiops]

To get back on topic, I'm perfectly happy saying that someone with OW, AOW, Rescue, Nitrox, and 5+ full (diving) specialties that include Deep and Navigation is probably an Advanced diver. I'm even happier if their full specialties include Search and Recovery and Cavern. I'm very happy if they have 100+ logged dives from shore, from boats, in currents, at night, and on wrecks. If they are Self-Reliant/Solo, all the better. Tech training is also good, especially advanced nitrox and deco or Tec 40/45.
AOW is not enough to be advanced...but it is definitely advanced beyond OW, which is all it claims to be.
I dive with many very good divers who do NOT check all the boxes listed above. I don't see a problem with that.

 

[azstinger11]

To get back on topic, I'm perfectly happy saying that someone with OW, AOW, Rescue, Nitrox, and 5+ full (diving) specialties that include Deep and Navigation is probably an Advanced diver. I'm even happier if their full specialties include Search and Recovery and Cavern. I'm very happy if they have 100+ logged dives from shore, from boats, in currents, at night, and on wrecks. If they are Self-Reliant/Solo, all the better. Tech training is also good, especially advanced nitrox and deco or Tec 40/45.
AOW is not enough to be advanced...but it is definitely advanced beyond OW, which is all it claims to be.
I dive with many very good divers who do NOT check all the boxes listed above. I don't see a problem with that.

I think the holistic approach is far better. I have met instructors on their first boat dives that while they have hundreds of dives, literally all of them were in a quarry and their skills in the open ocean were.....questionable. Its not so much about exactly how many dives, which cards you hold, and where the dives were, its a blend of all those and other factors that makes a diver "advanced".

 

[scubadada]

My LA County card from 1970 certified me from a 30 hour course for Basic Skin and Scuba Diving. @Azstinger took a 100 hour course and was certified in Advanced Skin and Scuba Diving. LA County is not much like most training these days. It is really too bad that LA County no longer teaches the basic course .