What really is an "Advanced Open Water" diver?

[wetb4igetinthewater]

It appears that Rescue does not have a minimum of dives but requires Adventurer (3 of 5) AOW dives. So you could probably get Rescue after as few as 7 dives, frightening.

I strongly agree that it is frightening.

That number should be zero.

 

[scubadada]

Well, in theory you could begin the rescue class after 7 dives.

So why is the fact that people can receive training on how to rescue a troubled diver with so few dives frightening? A lot of people argue that it should be part of initial OW training.

Yes, a whole other issue, right? Back to requirements for OW...

 

[Belzelbub]

Continuing scuba education is a difficult topic. Having something like 100 applicable dives for AOW would interfere dramatically with other certs. It appears that Rescue does not have a minimum of dives but requires Adventurer (3 of 5) AOW dives. So you could probably get Rescue after as few as 7 dives, frightening.

PADI courses are so confusing to me. I’d not heard of Adventure Diver before (Adventurer is an SSI course equivalent to PADI AOW). It seems like it’s PADI AOW Lite. I don’t see the point of PADI AOW, beyond the dive op requirements. I can’t fathom a reason for Adventure Diver, other than, I guess, to take Rescue.

 

[tursiops]

I can’t fathom a reason for Adventure Diver, other than, I guess, to take Rescue.

And one of the Adventure dives must be Navigation, to satisfy the Rescue prereq. The purpose of Adventurer is it can be done in one day; AOW is at least two days

 

[Belzelbub]

And one of the Adventure dives must be Navigation, to satisfy the Rescue prereq. The purpose of Adventurer is it can be done in one day; AOW is at least two days

Still seems to be a course with no reason to exist. I sort of feel the same about PADI AOW, but I can understand that a little to access certain dives. I don’t think Adventure Diver would meet those requirements. Just a prerequisite for Rescue, and maybe a few others.

Instead, Rescue should be a prerequisite to other courses. That would make sense.

 

[Bob DBF]

The Navy and PADI tables of the day allowed NDL dives to 140'.

My copy of the US Navy dive tables gave NDL of 5 min at 190'.

The Navy, from what I heard, limited divers to the 130 - 140' range because of the limited time for useful work at those depths. This may be where the recreational limit started, it would be interesting to know if that was the reason and when that happened.

 

[Bob DBF]

The AOW course itself is a monetary solution to a business problem, instead of a training solution to a skills problem.

Very perceptive. Might steal that quote for future 'discussions'.

The only issue would be that LA County was the first AOW and did not start it for profit. It's catchy, but not accurate.

 

[markmud]

Well, in theory you could begin the rescue class after 7 dives.

So why is the fact that people can receive training on how to rescue a troubled diver with so few dives frightening?

I agree with your question above. With Tech 40 my instructor made us perform work u/w. We had to be vigilante for ourselves and our buddy, follow our dive plan, and try to accomplish work.

SSI calls Rescue: Stress and Rescue. Adding stress to a diver makes them multitask and think. People who must perform meaningful tasks u/w become better divers. Also, diving under the supervision of an instructor can increase a new diver's awareness of critical issues and skills that they need to focus on.

OW and AOW does not train good divers. Some instructors may do a really good and comprehensive job with thier students; however, they are not the norm.

I think OW should include a hands-on intro into redundant air sources, staged decompression, shooting an SMB, and a host of other things that makes a diver more aware of skills they eventually should master. They would have an understanding of the issues involved and have a basis for more practice and possibly more training.

Instead, PADI (and all the others) told us that we were newly minted OW divers, just don't go below 60 fsw! Oh, and by-the-way, take this AOW class and you will be an Advanced SCUBA diver! WooHoo!

For most people, it takes one hundred dives, in many different environments including cold water, currents, deep, wrecks, high altitude, open ocean pinnacles, walls, to diving during slack tide in the Puget Sound or Straits of Georgia to really feel comfortable with being an "all-around" experienced diver, IMHO.

Cheers,
m

 

[tursiops]

With Tech 40 my instructor made us perform work u/w. We had to be vigilante for ourselves and our buddy, follow our dive plan, and try to accomplish work.

The same thing can happen in AOW. The Nav dive is serious task overload for many divers, S&R is very much work underwater. Even photography is challenging to many folks in terms of blending buoyancy, environmental awareness, and photo skills. Dive planning -- including gas usage -- is part of AOW, and situational awareness is always part of the dive.

I won't even try again to correct your use of AOW; it is NOT about making an advanced diver, is is SOLELY about advancing you beyond OW. That you refuse to accept this is telling.

You are very proud of the fact that you've taken Tec 40. Good. But is is a step toward technical diving, not a course for most recreational divers. In contrast, AOW is a sampler course to allow recreational divers to find things that they enjoy doing underwater. For some it is ID'ing fish or improving their SAC. For others it is increasing their comfort zone or learning photography. The point is, not every diver needs or wants technical training.

 

[lowwall]

I won't even try again to correct your use of AOW; it is NOT about making an advanced diver, is is SOLELY about advancing you beyond OW. That you refuse to accept this is telling.

That you refuse to accept that PADI pushes AOW as advanced training is telling.

PADI wants to have it both ways. They want a super short minimum OW course that they know is not adequate to prepare many (if not most) divers for independent diving. But they also want to avoid requiring additional training for any given recreational dive, because that would be an admission that their minimum standard violates the WRSTC standard. So they do everything possible to give the impression that AOW is required advanced training, without actually requiring it.

And they have been successful at this so far. Look how many people have responded on this thread saying that they are limited to 60' with OW, but AOW lets them go to 100'. Look how many PADI-affiliated dive ops have this same requirement. Look at the confusion people have between training limits and certification limits. This isn't an accident, it's the result of a very deliberate PADI marketing plan.