What Makes Divers a "DIR Diver"?

[gecko3s]

What about if you solo dive sometimes? Shouldn't that be part of the DIR mind set??????

 

[H2Andy]

It looked to me like you were looking for bait. That's how I read it (my perception)

no, i am interested in talking about this. just because some people can't help but
take potshots doesn't make the person asking a question a troll. it's no biggie,
just letting you know.

ok, let me try to answer my own question after reading through this. let me restate
that i do not consider myself a DIR diver. i have taken DIR-F and passed it, and
i have adopted the DIR equipment configuration, with the exception of a bottom
timer only. i stil use my computer.

what is a DIR diver?

first, a DIR diver must take and pass DIR-F. why? because it's the only class
out there that introduces you to the fundamentals of DIR. reading the books,
in my book, is not enough. DIR is about skills, and you can only learn skills
by doing them under supervision. this is the "beginner" DIR diver stage.

second, a DIR diver must accept the entire DIR package. it's a holistic package.
you can't pick and choose. this means emphasis on body conditioning,
equipment configuration, team mentality, ascent procedures, emergency
procedures, etc. you basically have to do everything the DIR way. this means
giving up non-DIR practices, such as diving with a computer and solo diving.
This is the "intermediate" DIR diver stage.

finally, a DIR diver must continue to practice the DIR style of diving, and
continue to improve and learn while growing as a diver. this means
tech training. this is the "apprentice" DIR diver stage. once you have
completed tech training through GUE, you then graduate to be a full
DIR diver, with knowledge of the entire system and practices.

??????

 

[StSomewhere]

no, i am interested in talking about this. just because some people can't help but
take potshots doesn't make the person asking a question a troll. it's no biggie,
just letting you know.

Mea culpa, I was out of line. Sorry about that, chief!

And I think you are definitely on the right track with your description. You aren't a DIR Diver (or was that "GUE Diver"!?!) if you don't buy into the package. You also need to continue to do dives at the level(s) you are trained for, i.e. you can't continue to be a Tech2 diver unless you continue to do Tech2 dives.

 

[H2Andy]

no worries... the internet is a tricky medium to discuss things people are
passionate about

(and i don't learn and keep on trying)

 

[lamont]

gjm wrote:



The more I thought about it, and about what I wrote, the more I wondered if divers who are like this gravitate toward DIR, or if GUE training can actually MAKE somebody like this, or if the truth is somewhere in the middle . . . people who are attracted to the training GUE provides start out with a lot of these characteristics, and they are then honed and polished by the training.

I know that my approach towards work and my approach towards diving are complementary.

At work I'm continually trying to preach about standardization of systems, standardization of reactions to events, elminating fiddling with systems, and that people doing it their own way winds up in downtime. I also occassionally go GI3 on people's assess at work when DIWM and blatant incompetency combine to annoy the crap out of me (Friday was a pretty big GI3 day for me).

 

[lamont]

Interesting that my post answered the question presented...but no one wanted to comment. Maybe there are a few e-divers (DIR ones, of course) that roam these parts?

Could it be that if it isn't about putting down DIR, let it be subtle or not, that the voices that comment all so frequently have nothing to say? Aside from rantings about that GI3 said in '98 and such, these threads are a bit quiet. I wonder how many have actually taken a GUE class.

I was interested in the comments from real divers about DIR, but, alas, no one can make a comment worth anything. 5 pages of nothing is what I see.

I'm personally aware that people like MHK, Bob Sherwood, Rtodd and others occassionally read this forum. I just can't think of much that I have to say that wouldn't be considered highly amusing by the guys who can actually make some claim to being DIR.

A lot of people have posted about the training, and I think that's a little too short sighted. A lot of people have sort of mentioned "holistic approach" and equipment, skills and fitness which is also a little bit short sighted.

Teamwork is probably the biggie. Collaboratively vetting the equipment, skills and procedures against real-world diving is another one. DIR divers also tend to avoid making severe mistakes in analysis and take into account the law of unintended consequences and tend to be good at failure analysis. From that you can generally derive the rest of it.... Only adopting solutions that solve underwater problems falls from the law of unintended consequences, fitness falls from teamwork and failure analysis, an awful lot of the gear config comes from failure analysis using real-life (fatalities) data across the whole cave diving community, etc.

 

[Kevrumbo]

I’m posting this as an outsider looking in. I instruct for another agency and have never had the opportunity of diving with DIR divers. But when I hear about DIR divers this is what comes to mind:

A group of divers who are willing to drop individual preference with gear and procedures for conformity in order to make the dive team more effective both in normal situation and emergency situation. (i.e. OOA)

A focus on basic and fundamental skills that will aid in all diving situations. In addition being willing to spend time working on the basic skills.

Seek an understanding of what is happening to their bodies while underwater and making decisions based that knowledge as opposed to blindly following a table or computer.

A willingness to make changes above water with regards to life style to have a better dive experience underwater.

A willingness to work with other divers to make them better divers.

Just an outsider's opinion.

Enjoy the dive

john

The more I thought about it, and about what I wrote, the more I wondered if divers who are like this gravitate toward DIR, or if GUE training can actually MAKE somebody like this, or if the truth is somewhere in the middle . . . people who are attracted to the training GUE provides start out with a lot of these characteristics, and they are then honed and polished by the training.

Here are some inductive tidbits quoted out of a couple posts by Anthony True of GUE/Halcyon:

The goal of the GUE openwater course will be to create an independently thinking diver who is comfortable enough with their skills to want to continue diving.

GUE wants to take the highly motivated diver and provide them with a very focused application of skills . . .[and] to pass the course often creates a very strong sense of accomplishment.

Perhaps that's why some GUE trained divers can be vocal about the experience.

http://www.scubaboard.com/showpost.php?p=1199000&postcount=118
http://www.scubaboard.com/showpost.php?p=1199236&postcount=126
http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?p=882843#post882843

 

[HarryH97]

Fellow DIR Divers,

I ran across this and thought I'd share...

"I’m glad George said it and I agreed with Peter’s earlier comment regarding training as only the beginning. My experience with GUE has been that they provide our divers with the best possible foundation from which to build upon. There is nothing out there that even comes close. I explained to Peter when he was here a month ago that I was impressed with his Cave 3 certification and his skill in the water but he had a long road ahead if his goals included gas and rebreather diving with the WKPP. I believe an appropriate analogy is the potential job candidate with the impressive resume and the MBA. Looking impressive on paper will probably get you the interview and if prepared, the job. Once in the door you need to prove yourself over time to get the corner office with the nice view."

Casey McKinlay
Project Director
Woodville Karst Plain Project

Training, Equipment, Mindset, Teamwork, Standarization, etc... The beauty of DIR is just when you think you've reached the summit called excellence, there's another higher summit in front of you to climb with your team. The pursuit of perfection in increasingly challenging environments is highly addictive...DIR allows you to get there and back, alive.

Sincerely,
H2

 

[*Floater*]

what is a DIR diver?

first, a DIR diver must take and pass DIR-F. ...

second, a DIR diver must accept the entire DIR package. ...

finally, a DIR diver must continue to practice the DIR style of diving, and
continue to improve and learn while growing as a diver. this means
tech training. ...

??????

i don't look at DIRness as a binary variable. i think divers can be a little bit DIR and that's okay, though I know some others would disagree.

 

[Data]

what is a DIR diver?

first, a DIR diver must take and pass DIR-F. why? because it's the only class
out there that introduces you to the fundamentals of DIR. reading the books,
in my book, is not enough. DIR is about skills, and you can only learn skills
by doing them under supervision. this is the "beginner" DIR diver stage.

I strongly disagree with this.
JJ himself and a group of guys were dir divers long before gue was founded.
as a matter of fact, they where dir divers and felt the need to found gue to spread their way of diving.
it's kind of: "what came first, the chicken or the egg", but in this case it's clear that there were dir divers long before dir-f came along, and therefore there can be dir divers without ever taking dir-f.
this gets me to think, if JJ never took dir-f, he wouldn't be a dir diver if what you said would be true :icosm13:

second, a DIR diver must accept the entire DIR package. it's a holistic package.
you can't pick and choose. this means emphasis on body conditioning,
equipment configuration, team mentality, ascent procedures, emergency
procedures, etc. you basically have to do everything the DIR way. this means
giving up non-DIR practices, such as diving with a computer and solo diving.
This is the "intermediate" DIR diver stage.

this I fully agree with

finally, a DIR diver must continue to practice the DIR style of diving, and
continue to improve and learn while growing as a diver.

so far so good.

this means
tech training. this is the "apprentice" DIR diver stage. once you have
completed tech training through GUE, you then graduate to be a full
DIR diver, with knowledge of the entire system and practices.
??????

definitely disagree with this.
you can be a dir diver, and all you want to do is dive within recreational limits for the rest of your live.
as a matter of fact, dir even teaches you that tech diving isn't for everyone and that you should be clear about your own reasoning why you want to become a tech diver.
there are many dir-f instructors who have no gue tech certification and don't plan on getting one , would you call them all dir "apprentices"?
and again, there are many tech divers who are tech certified to the highest (or is that deepest ) level of (insert you favorite agency here), have taken the dir-f class after 20 years of diving, have adapted the dir philosophy and changed their ways to dive the exact same way as a gue tech I diver and buddy up with gue tech I divers all the time.
it wouldn't be fair to say they are not dir divers.

all the above is just my ppO2 and should be taken as such only.