What Is Your Preferred Liveaboard COVID-19 Policy?

[runsongas]

caught it again after being boosted this summer. was much milder than the first time which occurred before vaccines were available, have had flus that were worse. voted for lax because it is really NBD to me anymore. life goes on.

 

[waterone]

Covid kills something like 1% of the people who get it. It seems like a lot of people hear that 1% number, and just kinda round it off to 0% in their head.

If your brother, or your wife, or your child was thinking about playing a game of russian roulette with a gun with 100 chambers on it, you'd talk him out of it, wouldn't you? I don't see the difference

It seems that you are unaware of what makes up that 1% number, otherwise you might see that it isn't comparable in the way that you have put it, at all.

If you wanted to think along those lines BUT with your wife, brother and children ALL above age 65 it would be ...............closer to the 100-chamber scenario. However, if all are under age 49 the death rate is somewhere around .07%. If the children were younger than 29 somewhere around .008%, or if under age 17 around .0013%.

Or in survival terms -
99.92% age 49 or less
99.991% age 29 or less
99.9987% age 17 or less

-This is based off what I could find and do quick and dirty calculations with what I was able to locate with case numbers, death and age, so there will be error!

The numbers I believe are much smaller if you consider that many don't have any symptoms at all (especially younger people), many never realize that they have it and many never get tested. Then of course smaller still if it could be broken down into died with covid or from covid.

Early on that was true, leaning very heavily toward the elderly, particularly with comorbidities.

Now we've got widespread vaccination, and the odds are drastically lower. Yes, there's still some risk, although that's true with quite a range of illnesses.

Even many of the unvaccinated have had the virus at some point; of those who haven't, I imagine the growing sentiment has become that they have made their choice (plus they're going to get infected anyway).


Interesting point. I suspect the Law of Unintended Consequences may come into play. If partway through a trip a diver suddenly starts wearing a mask, it's going to make some of the other people nervous, and might lead to a demand (e.g.: by captain) he be tested (this could be driven by policy or liability risk perception). That's a disincentive for that diver (who doesn't want to be tested) with the scratchy throat, for example, to start masking up, even if he'd otherwise be willing to do it.

I just wanted to say that while not aimed at this post, I often enjoy the way you word things and it often gives good and digestible information when I read your posts. Of course, I am not referring to just covid!

And that's sad. I wish people could reliably admit feeling a bit unwell and mask up without fear they'd be pressured (or coerced) to get tested. It might be better for us all.

This is similar to where I am at. A sickness shouldn't be hidden from others that you are around and at the same time we shouldn't be running away scared or force others to be tested for every sniffle or cough.

 

[jborg]

I prefer the Asian way, where you mask up for anything from a slight cold. It reduces transmission, hides your snottiness, and indicates to the rest of the world that they may want to keep a certain distance if they don't want a cold. I'd hoped that this pandemic would reduce the stigma attached to wearing a mask in the west, but of course the whole thing had to become political so that hardly seems likely.

 

[ontdiver]

I dove with a group a few years ago on a Red Sea LOB. Just about everyone on the boat came down with the flu. Most continued to dive, some aided by decongestants and other over the counter meds. Everyone knew that everyone was sick and I don't think anyone denied their symptoms.

Fast forward and with more folks getting vaccinated against COVID (we are now up to 4 boosters in Canada including the Moderna bivalent, for a total of 5/5 vaccinations) it is unclear what the next several months will look like as they intersect with the seasonal flu.

I am quite hesitant about the whole confined space thing, and probably wont get on a LOB in the near term even with pre-testing and vaccination certification. It would be interesting to see some COVID stats from a wide range of LOB operators, but understandably this is probably not going to happen.

 

[Joneill]

Sounds like Bob's not really thinking things through.

Covid kills something like 1% of the people who get it. It seems like a lot of people hear that 1% number, and just kinda round it off to 0% in their head.

If your brother, or your wife, or your child was thinking about playing a game of russian roulette with a gun with 100 chambers on it, you'd talk him out of it, wouldn't you? I don't see the difference.

It doesn’t just indiscriminately kill 1% of all people who get it - a majority of that 1% has 1 or more significant co-morbidities to begin with. That is an important distinction in assessing one’s risk of serious outcomes if infected that should not be ignored!

 

[Joneill]

Don’t care, I’ll avoid the confined situation for a while longer.

As you are entitled to do if not comfortable at present.

 

[Joneill]

I prefer the Asian way, where you mask up for anything from a slight cold. It reduces transmission, hides your snottiness, and indicates to the rest of the world that they may want to keep a certain distance if they don't want a cold. I'd hoped that this pandemic would reduce the stigma attached to wearing a mask in the west, but of course the whole thing had to become political so that hardly seems likely.

I don’t think there is a real stigma at this point. You can wear a mask whenever you want - just don’t expect others to wear masks for things like a sight cold. To me, that’s just silly - but you do you!

 

[scubadada]

Hi @drrich2

This has been an interesting poll and discussion. I just changed my response from 3 to 5. I had missed the "required" test if becomes symptomatic. So, an explanation is needed. I assume this is what do you think today?

This has been going on for a long time. If you choose to travel to dive, land-based or liveaboard, you do what is required of you at the time, the rest is up to you. I was primarily vaccinated early in 2021. I have been boosted twice, Oct 21 and March 22. I will get an Omicron booster in less than 2 weeks. I usually still wear a mask in crowded indoor public places and on the plane. I don't wear a mask outdoors. I don't believe that I have had Covid infection. So, I have taken precautions and have traveled, under a variety of different circumstances.

My first international trip during the pandemic was to Colombia in July 2021, to take a liveaboard to Malpelo. Colombia had just dropped their entry test, only an antigen test was needed to return to the US. A trip to Bonaire in October 2021 was the opposite in terms of testing. It required a NAAT test to enter, an antigen test 5 days into the visit at Bonaire Public Health, and another antigen test to return to the US. I took a liveaboard to Tiger Beach and Bimini Bahamas in March of this year. As we never left the boat, no entry test or return test required. I took a liveaboard in Belize in April. No entry test was required but an antigen test was still required for return to the US. What a difference time makes, my wife and I just returned from Bonaire, no entry test, no exit test, nothing at all. With no more required testing, you don't know who you may be traveling with.

Starting with the trip to the Bahamas this year, I have had antigen self-tests with me in case I, or someone else, became symptomatic during the trip. I would have no qualms about sharing my test results with others, I think they have a right to know. I hope that I would be given the same consideration. Fortunately, I am aware of no illnesses associated with any of these trips.

Others have not been so lucky on their trips, ScubaBoard is replete with reports on the topic. A friend went to Bonaire just before my trip and became ill with Covid shortly after returning, He thinks he was likely exposed on the plane. This reinforced my habit of continuing to wear a mask on planes for now.

If you want to hear a particularly complex story regarding travel during Covid, ask my friend @Dan

 

[Lorenzoid]

I don’t think there is a real stigma at this point. You can wear a mask whenever you want - just don’t expect others to wear masks for things like a sight cold. To me, that’s just silly - but you do you!

How "slight" and how do you know it's going to improve rather than worsen? "Slight" like the kind of symptoms that might prevent any of us from being able to dive? There's nothing "slight" about me being unable to dive on a liveaboard I paid thousands of dollars for because a sick fellow passenger takes no measures to help prevent infecting others. If you're sick with something contagious in a shared enclosed space like a liveaboard's salon, please stay away from others. A mask can help contain your germs.

 

[Dan]

I voted for #1 based on my personal experience in going to 16 dive trips (14 liveaboards & 2 dive resorts) from December 2020 to August 2022. Up to February 2022, the 10 liveaboards & 1 dive resort where I went to, required their guests to follow the #1 or #2 policy. By March 2022, many countries start to relax their Covid policies. So from then on, liveaboards & dive resort where I went to (my 12th to 16th dive trips) did not require their guests to take Covid test as long as they were fully vaccinated (#3). I contracted Covid after my 13th dive trips, in June 2022.

It was coincidentally when US government dropped their Covid test requirement for entering the country. I got the symptoms when I got home. Took the self test kit & sure enough I contracted Covid. It’s a mild one without fever, no loss of taste, nor smell, just a runny nose, tiredness, headache and a bit of coughing that went away after 7 days. The self test kit showed negative on the 8th day.

That was a good reminder that even though I have been fully vaccinated including 2 booster shots, I still could get sick from Covid. Although it was a mild one, it is something that I don’t want to repeat. I paid more attention in following the Covid protocols afterwards. So far I haven’t contacted Covid on the 14th to 16th dive trips.

Next week I’ll be going to Cocos with Argo. Although Costa Rica follows the #3 policy, Undersea Hunter still follows the #1 policy, which I support.