What is the fundamental reason that prevents scuba diving from becoming popular?

[Blackcrusader]

Yes....We should all just keep this post and put it out there everytime the advanced & master thing emerges.
It is interesting though that before 2010 the PADI DM course didn't have the Deep component (I did the old course just before it changed). I already had Deep cert. but did wonder about that myself.
What exactly do the DMCs do now regarding Deep? It can't be as thorough as the Deep Course itself, no?

When I wrote about DM's not having done the deep course I was told that it was part of the DM course. There are many DM's I dive with in Asia who have been DM's for more than 20 years. They have told me they never did the Deep course certificate either.

However a BSAC dive leader is certified to 50m. So different agencies have different training depths.

 

[TMHeimer]

I can see that where I worked years ago there would be little need for a DM to have Deep training. The only reasons I can think of would be to assist on an AOW course doing a Deep dive or on the Deep course itself. But I believe assistants are not used on these at the shop here. Or perhaps doing the odd charter. But I never volunteered for that with the pay being $5 per diver.....

 

[TMHeimer]

When I wrote about DM's not having done the deep course I was told that it was part of the DM course. There are many DM's I dive with in Asia who have been DM's for more than 20 years. They have told me they never did the Deep course certificate either.

However a BSAC dive leader is certified to 50m. So different agencies have different training depths.

I don't thing the Deep course itself is part of the PADI DM course. It's one dive, so I doubt you actually get Deep certified.

 

[Blackcrusader]

I don't thing the Deep course itself is part of the PADI DM course. It's one dive, so I doubt you actually get Deep certified.

Well as I wrote one dive center didn't want me doing deep dives until they saw my dive logs with deep dives. Just don't tell others as they wanted to sell the deep dive certificate. Nothing wrong with that it is a business they run and the training would be useful to newer divers. I think the TDI advanced nitrox course would be better than a padi deep dive cert. A lot of AOW courses are bundled with nitrox which makes sense.

 

[Blackcrusader]

Your BC hose is flooded, inhaling air from it might cause spasms and immediately panic. It's a reflex. There's no way you purge the hose without air.

Your cylinder(s) still has air on it and while ascending and because of the pressure drop / differential you might get a few extra breaths IF you keep your Reg in your mouth.

You can use the inflator hose to get any air in the tank into the BCD as well.

Even OW divers are taught to oral inflate from their BCD inflator hose underwater. If they are in the vertical position then the water would be pushed back to the bottom of the BCD. An emergency ascent is done in vertical position. Yes you need to be careful to make sure you do not inhale any water so first inhale needs to be slow. There can be little droplets. Same when you clear a snorkel after being underwater there can be droplets of water.

A quote from how to use your BCD "many oral inflators have holes behind the deflator button to prevent water from being blown back into the bag while purging, so the best method is to first blow a little air in so the water runs out the holes. Then hold the deflator valve down as you continue blowing. Your exhaled breath will now go into the BCD, and the holes will be sealed so no water can re-enter
Still, although no one's making you learn these new skills, one day you might be glad you or your buddy did."

BTW I have written that I dive with around 2kg extra weight as I have found many an instabuddy underweighted when their tanks are low on gas and need extra weight for the non essential safety stop. It also means that on deep dives I have some extra gas in my BCD. Always useful to have some redundant gas somewhere when I don't use a pony on NDL dives.

 

[El Diablo]

I have no idea what it means to be "more flexible." Dive tables are more complicated than the NDLs for a first dive. You can't just summarize a dive table by looking at its first dive NDL.

Before PADI created its tables, most diving was done using the US Navy tables, and many of the tables used by other agencies still follow those tables pretty closely. PADI's research was based on a belief that the US Navy tables were based on Navy diving, which is different from the diving typically done by most of what we now call recreational divers. The biggest problem was that the US Navy tables required extremely long surface intervals, which made the typical 2-tank diving done around the world today impossible.

PADI's published research indicated that they could use the 60 minute theoretical tissue to govern surface intervals rather than the navy's 120 minute tissue. To further limit surface intervals, PADI nearly doubled the number of pressure groups to cut down on rounding errors, and it lowered the NDLs for first dives. These changes shortened surface intervals significantly and enabled dive operations to run 2-tank dive trips, as they are done all around the world now.

It would be a mistake to use first dive NDLs for other tables and then ignoring those other tables by using the PADI surface interval before your second dive. If you are only doing one dive, you can safely use the longer surface interval.

I have no idea of the history of the BSAC tables.

Pretty much all computer algorithms are far more consistent with the PADI tables than the old US Navy tables.

I explained that further down the line. BSAC tables are less conservative at depth.
In any case, now bottom time is depending on the different dive computers and the algorithms they adopt so everybody's life is much easier.

Thanks for jumping-in and explaining that becoming a DM takes more work that some credit us.

 

[Wibble]

The important thing about the dive master course is that it is supposed to prepare the diver for employment.

One expects that quite a few people "do the DM" with no intention of working in scuba, it's just seen as a badge of being more advanced than a plain old Rescue Diver.

 

[Angelo Farina]

Why on earth would I want to be a DiveMaster? Have no intention of teaching nor working in the industry (I go diving to go diving not to dash around a dive site for 30 minutes). I doubt very much that the DiveMaster training would have any relevant planning information that I don't already do and it certainly isn't aimed at diving well outside of NDL "recreational" limits using multiple gasses and solo.


One thing I do like about at least one agency is the way they use the term Advanced Diver to mean a highly experienced diver with a whole host of different skills. That certification is way beyond most other recreational agencies. That agency, BSAC, also have their premier certification, First Class Diver. This requires a lot of experience of diving, managing, planning, boat operations, the whole nine yards.

In my organization, FIPSAS (CMAS), when I was working as a professional instructor (paid), there was no "dive master".
After the highest recreational degree (3 stars diver, which allows for deco and max depth 50m, and also for pure-oxygen CC rebreathers), there was "assistant instructor", which has a clear meaning, and then three degrees of instructors (one, two or three stars).
My job in a top-level touristic organization (Club Vacanze) was in a double role: instructor, teaching new students and releasing certifications, but also a Dive Guide. For the latter job, an instructor or assistant instructor qualification was not required. The customers were all expert divers (in some case more expert than me), the diving guide had just the role of a touristic or naturalistic guide. She or he was not responsible for the safety of the customers... That was the sole responsibility of the capitan of the boat, as the Italian law clearly establish. The capitan often had a "tender", who was a scuba diver with a specialty in Rescue, kept ready to intervene if needed.
Many Dive Guides were marine biologists, their job was showing the various critters to customers.

 

[Blackcrusader]

Why do they do it?

What is the benefit of becoming a DiveMaster if you’re not going to work in the scuba industry?

Some want the knowledge they expect to gain from the courses they tell me. Many people ask me why I don't want to do the DM course and I like you tell them I do not want to work in the industry. There is nothing stopping me leading dives or being lead by divers such as yourself. Don't need a DM cert for that. I have a rescue cert and I doubt I still have the skills to really rescue anyone. When was the last time anyone re-trained on EFR skills or CPR after getting their rescue cert?

As I dive a lot with vacation divers who are only OW or AOW I don't expect them to try to rescue anyone either. In 36 years of diving I've only had three dive instabuddies have an OOA empty tank situation, all three were active working dive instructors.

 

[ginti]

The Divemaster course qualifies the diver as a professional but nevertheless, you should know better.

I haven't read the whole thread, nor the last pages. But I sometimes see tech-divers have the behaviour you just cited (they know better than the divemasters).

In my opinion, tech training pushes (or should push) the limits of a diver in terms of skills and awareness, probably way more than a divemaster course. Therefore, some tech-divers (I think a minority) believe they know better because their training is more badass.

They [tech divers] forgot a crucial detail: their training is about doing advanced dives alone or with other very well trained divers. It is NOT about helping people with fewer skills, letting people have fun in exotic places, legislation, etc. If a diver wants to do these things, the right way is to go for a divemaster course. And tech-divers need to recognise that they do not know about this field (which has nothing to do with tech-diving).