What is the fundamental reason that prevents scuba diving from becoming popular?

[Cthippo]

Humans are the least reliable link in the failure chain and using technology to counteract our failings, rather than depending on it to think for us is the way to go. In the safety world, telling someone "Be more careful" is the equivalent of saying "We don't care enough about you to actually do anything about the problem".

 

[Blackcrusader]

From my understanding, depths are still regulated by the WRSTC.

WRSTC only applies to training dives instructor and student?

 

[Belzelbub]

Sorry man but I really don't understand what the disagreement is... on PADI's Blog that you refer it is clearly written:

PADI Scuba Diver Vs. PADI Open Water Diver: Maximum Depth​

– Open Water Divers can plan and execute dives with a certified buddy or dive professional to a maximum depth of 18 meters/60 feet.

Thanks. I was able to find that on PADI's Blog. At least for PADI, the 60'/18M does appear to be their limit.

From my understanding, depths are still regulated by the WRSTC.

I looked through the Open Water Standards published by WRSTC. I saw reference to depth limits during the checkout dives, but nothing beyond that.

That might be why different agencies seem to have different interpretations. SSI lists 60' as a Recommended limit for OW and/or an explanation of what to expect during the course, not a Maximum depth.

I haven't taken a PADI course since 1990.

 

[Blackcrusader]

Fourth and perhaps more importantly, Air that you exhale has 16% oxygen on it. Your body uses only 5% under normal conditions. That gives you approx. 10-12 breaths before it becomes really dangerous. Together with the exhaled O² there's also CO². With every exhalation CO² builds up leading to Hypercapnia. This can produce elevated heart rate, confusion among other symptoms. Not exactly helping to controlled panic in an OOA situation...

At 40m depth as the OP mentioned, GOOD LUCK re-breathing air from your BCD, controlling your buoyancy and getting safely to the surface.


Secondly, I haven't been trained on re-breathing air from my BCD as no agency advocates that method.

I have done so from 40m. One also needs to manage the breathing so after inhale a not too slow exhale back into the bcd as you ascend. Also the speed of the ascent gets faster as the air expands. You could of course get to 20m and then swap to a CESA if you wanted to. As you ascend you may also find a breath in your secondary and of course air in the tank still expands as you ascend so you may get more from there as well.

I do not assume that every diver who gets to OOA from not monitoring spg does not go into a blind panic. You can feel it coming on.
A bit of CO2 build up is preferable to a drowning and once on the surface you have all the air you need. Fast ascent to the surface is preferable 15m a minute

One needs to understand how hypoxia affects the body and yes I am sure not many agencies teach much about this but it was covered in my BSAC courses and manuals. ( not the rebreathing from BCD that was from my instructor not BSAC ) Also covered is CBL or controlled buoyancy lift where you use the BCD or dsmb for an emergency controlled ascent. ( I did not do dry suit but it's also covered for that as well ) Of course you can also drop weights for extra positive buoyancy. Ascent rates are also important you are not dawdling around to take a few photos on the way up. If one knows of an extra life saving procedure then one may not be so inclined to panic should an equipment failure happen.

I think the last resort rebreathing from BCD should be taught. However as most students are using rental gear which has probably never had a bladder cleaned who knows that lurks in them? We should all watch The Last Breath.

I've never been with a diver at 40m depth within NDL that does not have a lot of gas in their tank. I've never needed an alarm or vibration device to let me know my air supply. If I do a dive to 40m on air there is not a lot of time to NDL in the first place and I monitor my air on the way down and at max depth as I also need to monitor my NDL. Don't need any alarms for this.

Controlled panic.. yes good term you use there we all need try and remain calm if we can.

 

[Blackcrusader]

Thanks. I was able to find that on PADI's Blog. At least for PADI, the 60'/18M does appear to be their limit.

I looked through the Open Water Standards published by WRSTC. I saw reference to depth limits during the checkout dives, but nothing beyond that.

That might be why different agencies seem to have different interpretations. SSI lists 60' as a Recommended limit for OW and/or an explanation of what to expect during the course, not a Maximum depth.

I haven't taken a PADI course since 1990.

Another SSI DM in another thread emailed and asked SSI and they replied that depths are only recommendations not a max depth once certified.

Read what Vatty posted #52

Question - Night Diving - requirements, insurance coverage, WRSTC

Correct. But even though she clearly had the experience, and me as a 34nyr divemaster to vouch, they would not take her on a dive deeper than 60 ft. My AoW had night dives in it, but understand not all must. A resort can state a DM cannot dive with them deeper than 18m if that is their...

scubaboard.com

 

[boulderjohn]

I have watched these last pages with something akin to despair. This issue of certification depth has appeared in threads over and over and over and over and over and over in the 18 years I have participated in ScubaBoard, with the last 17 of those years as a professional. The consensus finally is usually the same at last, but not in this thread.

Here are some points that I would like to make as a long-time instructor.

• Whatever disputed language PADI may make, it has absolutely no authority to govern your dives outside of training. A dive operator leading your dives may make such rules, but no agency has that power. A local government may make such rules, but no agency has such power. A good example of this can be seen in the public letter PADI wrote to Belize about a decade ago about the common practice of taking newly minted OW divers to 130 feet in the Blue Hole. That letter said such dives are a bad idea and implored them to make rules against it. They had to beg the local authorities to act because they had no such power themselves.
• PADI uses strong (probably overly strong) language suggesting people dive within the limits of their training and experience. New OW divers are trained to a maximum of 60 feet, and so that is a recommended limit until they extend it via training and experience. One way divers can extend that limit is to dive gradually deeper and deeper. Another way is with further training. Most people do both.
• Many dive operators will require AOW or its equivalent for deeper dives (in the 100 foot or more range), but that is their requirement, not the requirement of any agency. It is usually a product of their insurance, looking for some objective means of determining a diver has the proper credentials for the dive. (The operator's judgment of your ability can be challenged in court; a certification card cannot.)
• Many dive operations impose their own limits on divers and then flat out lie to them by saying it is because of an agency requirement. That lie is to hide the fact that it is their rule. When I was on the liveaboard Spirit of Freedom in Australia, they made two such lies. They told us that during a dive day, we could not dive any deeper than a previous dive, and they told us we could not dive within 24 hours of our planned low altitude flight back to the mainland. They said they had no choice because of PADI requirements. Neither is true, as the dive leader admitted when I challenged him privately. He admitted it was just company policy.

Summary: Whatever the language is on certification depths, it cannot possibly be more than a recommendation because no agency has the power to govern anything you do on your own.

 

[Blackcrusader]

Summary: Whatever the language is on certification depths, it cannot possibly be more than a recommendation because no agency has the power to govern anything you do on your own.

Same when I challenged an instructor who said I could not do a deeper than 30m dive. Privately he said OK I have seen your dive logs 30% are deeper than 30m so you can do the deep dives but please don't tell our other customers as the business wanted to push them to do the padi deep certificate so they could dive deeper than 30m. Had nothing to do with Padi but to do with the center pushing certs and making money. Plus I asked him to show me his DM's deep diving certs as they would be guiding me. They didn't have deep diving certs either lol.

 

[boulderjohn]

Same when I challenged an instructor who said I could not do a deeper than 30m dive. Privately he said OK I have seen your dive logs 30% are deeper than 30m so you can do the deep dives but please don't tell our other customers as the business wanted to push them to do the padi deep certificate so they could dive deeper than 30m. Had nothing to do with Padi but to do with the center pushing certs and making money. Plus I asked him to show me his DM's deep diving certs as they would be guiding me. They didn't have deep diving certs either lol.

The requirements for the deep dive are also part of the DM certification, so a certified DM has that qualification.

I spent a week diving on Andros Island in the Bahamas, and the crew led several dives to 150 feet. Divers could follow the DM to that depth if they wanted, or they could watch from shallower depths. No special certification required.

 

[Blackcrusader]

The requirements for the deep dive are also part of the DM certification, so a certified DM has that qualification.

I spent a week diving on Andros Island in the Bahamas, and the crew led several dives to 150 feet. Divers could follow the DM to that depth if they wanted, or they could watch from shallower depths. No special certification required.

I wrote incorrectly should have said guides, not all guides have DM certs I've met quite a few with only rescue.

 

[Chavodel8en]

Same. If quarry diving was all I could do, I likely would have never gotten into it. I certainly wouldn't have kept up with it.

The impetus for me was a snorkeling trip we took in the Keys when I was young. I was hooked at that point and wanted to spend more time underwater. Prior to that, I'd done lots of swimming and snorkeling in freshwater springs, but that didn't do it. It was seeing all the activity on the reef that got me.

Snorkeling at Chakanaab in Cozumel - on vacation as an adult - is what got me. It was cool seeing all those fish, but it would be way cooler to really get close to them.

I had no real exposure to water sports until I took that vacation as an adult. On a different note, I do think that cost and geography play a role in limiting scuba's popularity.