What is going on on training these days?

[Walter]

Panic is not prevented by air in the BC. Most of the panicked divers I've seen have had air in their BC's. Panic is prevented by building confidence in one's ability to solve problems. That is achieved by working on skills (including skills many no longer teach) until they are mastered, not just until the student squeezes in one successful attempt.

 

[TCDiver1]

ckharlan66 once bubbled...
Actually gedunk that made me remember something.

Last time I was on a boat a man strided in and bit through his mouthpiece. Panic followed and it took two people on the boat the push him back on. (he was rather large). If he had been negative it would have been much worse and a recovery would have probably been in order.

Now I am fully aware that based on how easily he paniced he probably didn't have any business diving anyway (not without practice in a controled enviroment to get comfortable) but he was a "once a year in the warm water" diver.

Chad

Pick your crisis. Once you think you have seen it all, Murphy will show you a new one.

In a perfect world everyone is comfortable and nothing goes wrong.

Aaaahh, we can only dream:sigh:

 

[ckharlan66]

But if he had been negative he would have been panicing at 80 feet with no reg in his mouth.

It was a lack of training and practive on his part that caused the panic. He had a back up and two other divers in the water next to him so he had the power to fix the situation but instead panicked. I am happy that DM Bryan was quick enough to get to him from the boat and strong enough to drag him back to the boat because the other two divers in the water were his sons and they weren't making any effort to help him.

 

[Uncle Pug]

... I'm perfectly weighted for diving here in the PNW salt... I know exactly what is needed with the different combinations of suits and gear I use... and I always exit the boat with air in the wing unless the current is ripping and we've planned the splash as the beginning of the descent and have done all our checks on the boat.

But I am beginning to see the genesis of some of the accidents we have up here... specifically the warm water certified traveling diver who drops off the charter boat and is found later with a full tank at 200fsw.

I agree with you Walter that being overweighted is a bad habit... but I think entering the water with no air in the BC is a bad a habit too.

 

[TCDiver1]

Walter once bubbled...
Panic is not prevented by air in the BC. Most of the panicked divers I've seen have had air in their BC's. Panic is prevented by building confidence in one's ability to solve problems. That is achieved by working on skills (including skills many no longer teach) until they are mastered, not just until the student squeezes in one successful attempt.

Agree with everything you said here Walter except the first sentence. Positive buoyancy (air in BC) can mitigate panic in some situations.

No one thing, including mastery of all skills, can prevent panic.
However, mastery of skills can prevent panic in some situations the same as being positive at the surface.

Never said air in the BC will prevent panic. IMO, a diver who is positive at the surface, is better off in a panic situation than a neutral or negative diver.

 

[TCDiver1]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...
...
But I am beginning to see the genesis of some of the accidents we have up here... specifically the warm water certified traveling diver who drops off the charter boat and is found later with a full tank at 200fsw.

No doubt and IMO, warm water and cold water OW certs should be different. The added task loading of exposure protection and weight is a mind blower for many that were certified in warm water.

I been involved in several "rescues" for just this reason. All turned out okay, no lost of life, bad memories not withstanding.

 

[jonnythan]

Walter once bubbled...
Nessie,

"But as a diver with no wet-suit, aren´t you normally negatively buoyant without lead anyway?"

Most are not. A few are, but they are rare. Most people are positively buoyant. A lucky few are neutral. Fewer still are negative.

That's really strange... of my regular buddies, 5 are male, and 4 of us sink with no wetsuit on in a pool.

 

[jonnythan]

If you change some gear config.... you need to change your weighting for it to be perfect. How can you adjust your weighting without getting into the water? If you're not sure if you have too much weight on, why not have some air in your BC when you enter?

 

[MikeS]

It seems to me, that if “properly weighted” at the start of a dive with an AL80, with no air in your BC, you should be negatively buoyant by at least the swing weight of the tank. Otherwise, you would not be able to be neutrally buoyant at the end of the dive near the surface. So jumping in with no air in the BC you would tend to sink like a rock.

Mike

 

[Bob3]

...jumping in with no air in the BC you would tend to sink like a rock

Buoyancy swing on most Al 80s is 3 lbs either side of neutral, making for less than 6 lbs actual. Not 'nuff to drop a person like a rock unless they're built like a swizzle stick.

I agree wholeheartdly with the folks advocating proper weighting.
"Pushbutton Diving" is something you don't want to be promoting.