What is going on on training these days?

[Uncle Pug]

I suspect there are regional differences.

We have current as well... and also low viz... and if you do not descend with your buddy... and keep your buddy in view during the descent... it is possible that you will not find each other again. It is also possible that should your buddy have difficulty clearing and you continue on down that you will not find one another again.

So we like to drop in, and if no current do a bubble check on the surface... if current group quickly and proceed down together.

One thing I have noticed with the charter boats up here is that they expect you to give the OK after entering the water and before your descent.

I vote for having some air in the BC or wing before entering the water.

 

[dotyj]

I'm too new at this to be taken too serious but here goes.

My instructor always double checks my bcd befoe I enter the water to make sure I've got enough air in it to prevent me from sinking doing my pool entries.

I've been taught to get in the water before my buddy since I'm not going to be able to enter the water on my own. Then give the okay signal and wait for my buddy before descending.

If there's a strong current I probably won't be allowed to dive. Remember never to dive beyond your capability.

 

[neil]

Walter once bubbled...

If so (and she should be) then why inflate the BC? I never enter the water with an inflated BC. There's no reason to inflate your BC for an entry.

"So, Mr. Walter, would you please tell the court what the last instruction was that you gave before your student, the deceased, stepped off the boat."

What if eramosakarst's g/f had burst an eardrum on the way to the bottom of the pool?

Neil

 

[Cave Diver]

neil once bubbled...
What if eramosakarst's g/f had burst an eardrum on the way to the bottom of the pool?

Then I would suspect that she was overweighted and descending too rapidly.

While I agree that there should be some air in the B.C. to maintain positive bouyancy, if someone jumped in with NO air in the B.C. I would have to assume they are overweighted.

When diving AL80's and I let all the air out of my B.C. I generally have to exhale slowly and fully before I start to sink. During the initial descent like this, it is slow and controlled. Once I pass the first 10 or 15 feet I start to pick up speed which is moderated by a few quick inflator blasts.

So, while I agree that there should be SOME air in the B.C. I also think that if the student is sinking like a rock without ANY air, that they are probably over weighted.

Just my $.02 tho...

 

[Nessie]

@Cave Diver
But as a diver with no wet-suit, aren´t you normally negatively buoyant without lead anyway?

 

[eramosakarst]

The point I feel was missed is that they were learning entries not how to descend.I agree she should be nuetral but as this is her 2nd day they are overweighting to allow students to stay down in the pool-I also agree on the current analysis to a point=we dive rivers here that push 12 knots and you need to get down quick.BUT she is learning to dive with her buddy so 1 if she goes straight down she wont be with her buddy 2 Dont waste time on the surface?whats the rush-how about enter in a controlled manner -link up with buddy-do bubble check-exchange ok's then descend. 3 they were not told at all about inflating-once someone is competent in entries then worry about getting it together. BTW I am not trying to roast anyone I just felt this was an error.Dive safe

 

[eramosakarst]

I believe whether you are bouyant without a wetsuit is dependant upon your body style/ratio. I sink even with a full wetsuit on but she is bouyant.The instructors have the students wear 6lb of lead in the pool wuth no wetsuits.

 

[Nessie]

@eramosakarst
Oh, how nice, sure they all need the same amount of lead .
Of course, the bouyancy differs with the body style, but I would say if students are taught proper breathing technics, hardly anybody needs extra weights when wearing no wetsuit (but I have to admit that I have no experience with aluminium cylinders as they are more positively buoyant?!?). Anyway, I completely agree with you on the inflating thing.

 

[eramosakarst]

On most charters here ,DM's expect the ok after entry as a courtest and stress reliever.

 

[Walter]

Weighting, proper weighting, should be accomplished prior to learning entries. The student should be entering the water very close (there will be fine tuning as skill develops) to neutrally buoyant. When students make an entry neutrally buoyant, they do not drop to the bottom. That only happens if they are negatively buoyant by more than a few pounds. Why overweight them (bad habit) just to undo it later?

I also teach entries on the second pool session (except for the controlled seated entry which I teach during the first session), but I don't put them on SCUBA until the third pool session. I weight them neutrally for skin diving during the second session, then after SCUBA intro at the beginning of session number three, I neutrally weight them for SCUBA diving.

There's one time they are overweighted in my class. That is during during the first pool session while we are working on the snorkel, then the mask, then both combined. During this time, they stay in the shallow end where they can stand in waist deep water with me beween them and the deep end. They are also aware they are overweighted for this set of skills.

eramosakarst,

"whats the rush-how about enter in a controlled manner -link up with buddy-do bubble check-exchange ok's then descend."

All accomplished in seconds if you know what you are doing. It's my experience that most problems are caused, not solved, on the surface. Especially for the first couple of dives, sitting on the surface thinking about diving causes anxiety. Anxiety can lead to fear which can lead to panic. Students enter quickly, come to me and we descend together. I've been doing this a long time, it works.

"I am not trying to roast anyone I just felt this was an error."

You should ask when you see a potential problem. In this case (students are overweighted) it is a problem and the instructor is wrong. If students enter with no air in their BC's when they are overweighted, they will either sink immediately or wear themselves out treading water.

Nessie,

"But as a diver with no wet-suit, aren´t you normally negatively buoyant without lead anyway?"

Most are not. A few are, but they are rare. Most people are positively buoyant. A lucky few are neutral. Fewer still are negative.