What GPS?

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

The newer color Legend Cx gets double the battery life AAs that the grayscale Legend gets, from the same two AAs - a claimed 32 hours with a fresh set of alkalines. This means you can run rechargeables (which never hold as much as disposables) and still get decent battery life. That alone will make up for the higher price over time. Plus the Cxs have an upgradeable memory card (it's a standard digicam MicroSD, so its very cheap to upgrade) which can be used to store maps etc.

Digger54:
It is a bit of a battery hog. If you can use it where you could use an alternate power source such as a 12 volt auto or boat receptacle that would be great. Otherwise consider spare batteries an absolute must.
 
catherine96821:
ahhh...you had me going. really?

I did hear that the navigation systems don't work well here in cars. ???

And how come we don't have satellite radio? or do we? Everybody on the mainland has it. The radio plays, spells out the song title, etc. I have never seen it here.

happy new year Jon in the OC. Ignoring you Charlie.:zahn:
He he he. :D

GPS won't work in a vehicle, building or anywhere it can't see the signal from the satellites.
There are areas under an overhead where they will or might work but the signal needs a window or something to allow the units to communicate.

In vehicles most units need to be in an area like the dash or have an external antenna to work.

When we are out hunting or just out in the woods heavy brush or tree cover won’t let them work. So will being in a deep hole or canyon. They need to see a few sats.

Gary D.
 
I kayak dive and also do something called GeoCaching (geocaching.com). The one I use is a Garmin GPSmap60c. It is color and does both land and marine navigation great. I can upload maps for marine and land nav to it as well. I usually get within 10-15 foot accuracy while kayaking.
 
No satellite radio in Hawaii? Damn, I'm not going back then. Oh damn, thats not true. Well I can get Sirius on-line while I'm there. Maybe I should bring some GPS units, the old fashion way of looking at landscape is so passe.

Catherine, I wouldn't blame anyone for ignoring me.
 
I got a Garmin 60Csx for Christmas and have used it for geocaching. It is a great unit, but I think you can get decent units cheaper. Mine will take land and marine maps. I haven't used it on water yet, but I get 10-15 foot accuracy.
 
Try the geocaching web site. Plenty of "new" opinions there. I use a Magellan Platinum. Little larger display, thought not as detailed. Better compass and barometer. Better in the trees, maybe I should make that kelp.

adios don O
 
From my geocaching experience there's really no difference between the models. They all get you within about 12 feet on a good day. It seems like the satellite geometry/availability is the limiting factor rather than the receiver. What you end up paying for is pretty colors and fancy features, some of which are useful... such as USB interface and the ability to link it up google earth, etc. Keep in mind, most of the numbers you get off the internet aren't the greatest though... even Ned Deloach's guide to diving FL has crap numbers in my experience.

I have an old Garmin GPS MAP 12 and it works fine, but you have to program the numbers manuall or fool with the crappy garmin mapsource software. I bought it at a pawn shop for $50. For diving, I say the cheaper the better because it is only a matter of time before you drop it off the boat or lose it or it gets smashed by a scuba tank. If for some reason you feel like you need a topo map or something that requires a fast refresh rate on the screen, you may want something with a faster processor. My map gets very slow when there is a lot of detail on screen.
 
The newest GPSII-R(M) satellites have more transmitting oomph, which should help out with those pesky lost signals.
 
I assume what you’re talking about is a hand held consumer GPS unit.

I am a licensed land surveyor in California. I have been using GPS equipment since 1992. I’ve owned and operated all sorts of systems from really cheap hand held units to high-end, survey-grade systems. I’ve used equipment that could only receive American NAVSTAR signals and systems that could receive both NAVSTAR and Russian GLONASS.

So…here’s a brief overview. (If you want more, PM me.)

Garmin and Magellan both make excellent models well worth looking at.

I would suggest you look through a few web sites to look at the functions available and determine what you absolutely need, what you really want, what would be nice, and what you can easily live without.

NAVSTAR, the American GPS system, is a constellation of 24 satellites; four satellites in each of six orbital planes around the globe. The SV (Space Vehicles) orbit at an altitude of approximately 20,200 kilometers above the earth’s surface.

The signals put out by the SVs are very weak, something on the order of looking at a 50 watt light bulb from about a mile away. For this reason, and this reason only, the signals cannot penetrate buildings, vehicles or very much water. However, signals CAN bounce around inside a vehicle or a building and make a cheap hand held appear to be working. This is called multipath error. It can be mitigated by using some complex algorithms. You will not find this feature on low end units. Of course, in about 15 years, when the constellation is filled with enough satellite broadcasting the L5 frequency signal, we should be able to use GPS under 30 feet of water or so!

Essentially, the system is really a distance ranging system. Your hand held figures out how far it is to a particular satellite. By knowing where the satellite is supposed to be from a predicted orbit, the unit can determine where on the ellipsoid the unit is. The ellipsoid is a mathematical model of the earth’s surface - the real earth is much to difficult to model perfectly and work with (OK, for all the other tech heads, Geod 03 is a damned fine approximation, particularly in my world in southern California).

So, what do you need?

Look for a system that can handle data input, latitudes and longitudes, in degrees/minutes/seconds and decimal degrees. Make sure that the input will handle a tenth of a second - anything less, a second, is too loose and anything more is fibbing - the system isn’t that accurate. Make sure the unit can handle your local model, such as WGS84, or the local model; for your part of the world.

If you’re going to use it a lot to store huge chunks of data, get a system that will store the data on a removable memory card - very few hand helds have really efficient data input systems.

You can get systems that will allow you to upload huge chunks of maps, such as navigation charts or street maps. Cool, but the more they will do, the more they will cost.

From personal experience, the "ruggedized" units are just plain old NOT. On the other hand, there are a few brands of excellent dry bags specifically for use with GPS hand helds. Get one and use it. Belive me, a $24 bag is a lot cheaper than buying another unit. (Been there. Done that. Got that dirty t-shirt.)

Color screen v. monochrome. I like color. I put my units to significant professional use and I like color. It can show me a heck of a lot more data than monochrome. You make the choice. Color is much more expensive.

Accuracy. Do not let anyone tell you their unit is more accurate. It isn’t. Plain and simple. Unless you spend upwards of $50k on an RTK type system or you are in the military and have a military signal receiver, you’re not going to do any better than 10 feet, and that’s only if you have active WAAS (Wide Area Augmentation System). Yes, you can get a system for about $10K with a correction signal system that wil allow accuracies of about ½ a meter. And, yes, in certain areas with broad cast base station systems, for about $12K to $15K, you can get down to a few centimeters - sometimes if everything is perfect (if you’ve made this argument, call Roger Frank at Johnson and Frank).

With the signals being sent by the satellites, the perturbations in the orbits of the SVs, atmospheric distortions and a host of other variables, the best that can be expected from a non-WAAS enabled system is about 10 meters.

As a land surveyor, I use a survey grade RTK/Static system in my work. It cost well over $40K and can produce accuracies on the order of millimeters. (Topcon HiPer Lite +) I also have three Ashtech (now Thales) ProMarkII L1 receivers. They can give me accuracy to about +/- 10 cm on the fly and millimeters in post-process mode. To get to the site and for use on the weekends, holidays, diving, etc., I use a Magellan Color hand held. I’ve owned two other Garmin hand helds and have used the eTrex.

All models do the same basic job. The extra dollars buy more features. The key is to figure out what you need and what you can live without.
 
I finally replaced my old Garmin III with a Garmin eTrex Venture Cx and love it. I have a 512mb micro SD card in it which is more than enough to download all the maps I typically need on a long trip and I can exchange waypoint or route data between it, the big Garmin in the boat, and the Garmin 396 in the airplane, or download waypoints from the GNS430 in the plane.

I use it as a backup in the plane, on the motorcycle, in the car, on the boat for backup or to drive a laptop with bottom data, in my dive bag for marking new dive sites. I’ve been amazed at the battery life from it and how easy the screen is to read – even outdoors. With the WAAS I’ve been impressed with not only it’s horizontal accuracy and repeatability, but it’s pretty good on vertical and acquires satellites very quickly. It’s also water resistant enough that I don’t worry about it getting splashed on the boat or left running in my dive bag.

I’ve found some pretty good deals on GPS from http://www.gpsonsale.com/ and their customer service was great.

ETA: I also like the way it gives me tide information world wide to plan dive trip times.
 

Back
Top Bottom