What Experience Level for no-mount / Very Tight Caves?

[BoltSnap]

after extricating a gravitationally challenged member of another team who had been left to struggle alone.

OMG, I am even more scared now.

 

[tbone1004]

What is you just want to get the heck out? How do you make the 180 degree turn to head back in the tight place with somebody behind you? Is there a protocol to be able to do that?

With submerged caves it is often deemed safer to have this type of exploration done solo. Nothing your buddy can do to help you anyway if they're just as wedged as you are so best to have one body to recover than 2. Once you get through the initial exploration the first guy knows he can fit, where to turn around, etc. and then you can bring someone else in with you but it's also one of those where the bigger buy goes first on the way in and last on the way out so the tiny guy can get out.

 

[KevinNM]

I think Jill Heinerth wrote an article once about her buddy getting stuck on the way out that included the phrase “The cork in the bottle that contains my life.”

 

[mdwalter]

Let us know how it goes.

It went well. It was super easy, actually. I went into this thinking it might be a no mount restriction, but it turns out I could have probably done it in side mount. It turned out to be a 3 minute dive followed by an hour and a half of photogrametry in the chamber on the other side of the sump. Nobody had been in this chamber in 40 years, so in that sense it was a bit of an adventure, but the last guy in there (in 1983, when there was a drought and the passage was dryish) showed up as we were setting up, so I was able to ask him about the size of the passage. Afterwards, I got a photo with the last guy in (40 years ahead of me) and the next guy in (my buddy 4 minutes behind me) sitting on either side of me. My buddy did most of the work while we were in there recording the room. He took about 1900 stills and a couple videos, which will take the computer about 10 to 15 days to stitch together into a 3D rendering of the chamber. My job was just to run the reel in and out and be his light monkey for the photo shoot. We also got a few shots of each of us in the room to prove we were there. I was going to leave the line in with my REM on the end inside, but we decided we should spool it back up instead. All in all we were only in there from 5:17 to 6:36, but it felt more like hours of fun.

There seems to be another sump at the far end of this chamber, but the guys from 1983 said they tried to crawl it when it was dry and it pinched down to where they could not make it through. We think now that it's submerged we may be able to no mount it, but that's a project for another day. they may be right and it may not go, but maybe it does and if so, I think our chances are better now than if it were dry, for the reasons discussed by others in this thread.

 

[mdwalter]

What you described doesn’t sound that bad and I’d probably go for it. OP asked about “really tight caves.” What you describe is not what I’m talking about.

Well, this was somewhat unknown until I actually got in there. I thought it might actually be really tight. I'm actually surprised at how not tight it was for a passage nobody has attempted in 40 years. I would have thought somebody would beat us to it if it's this easy.

I don’t think passing a short restriction inside a show cave counts. Being close to help is radically different than hiking out into the sticks and dropping into a random hole or squeezing through a tight spot a long ways into a flooded cave.
No one is coming for hours or days in a remote dry cave and no one is coming in time in a flooded cave.

That's why I was happy to do my first sump dive in such an easily accessible location. Tight is tight and under water is under water regardless how far the entry point is from civilization, so I was happy to be taking on the perceived risk of a tight squeeze under water in a spot where help could reach us fairly easily if needed. As it turns out, it was not at all tight, but it is under water and I did dive it like it would be tight (no-mount, no harness, no fins), so at least I got to practice this in a "safe" but somewhat realistic environment. I now know I few things I would do differently. For my no mount setup, I need some more lift on the tanks, some more weight on my body, and I may make a few tweaks to how I carry extra gear I would normally put in a pocket or clip to a harness. My next 2 sumps are going to be just a little more remote - both at the back of non-show caves, but still pretty easy to reach for most any caver or rescuer - and just a little tighter. Both have been dived before by others, though not a lot, and for the one I have already spoken to a diver who's done it (like 10 years ago).

Before I started cave diving one of my dive buddies, who was a certified cave diver, made the claim that cave diving squeezes were easier than dry caves, he had zero dry caving experience. We took this guy to a local cave with several tight squeezes that we were used to just to F*^k with him. He FAILED miserably to deal with our dry squeezes. He didn't make it past the first one and is now singing a different tune.
Tight squeezes mess with everyone's head, my own included. It takes experience to get over it. I would rather have that initial experience in a dry cave where time is not a factor and I strongly recommend everyone else considering this stuff to do the same.

I've done both, and squeezes in dry caves seem way harder to me (see previous post in this thread). Also, I have fewer reservations of going head down in a passage under water than in the air. You have more time from a breathing perspective in the air, but gravity works against you in so many ways (blood flow, ability to push up, etc.)

 

[BoltSnap]

non-show caves

What does this mean please? I tried looking it up but didn't get the meaning in this context still.

 

[Robert H. Diver]

What does this mean please? I tried looking it up but didn't get the meaning in this context still.

I think a “show cave” is one that tourists go in for tours. Someone correct me if I’m wrong please.

 

[lostsheep]

It went well. It was super easy, actually. I went into this thinking it might be a no mount restriction, but it turns out I could have probably done it in side mount. It turned out to be a 3 minute dive followed by an hour and a half of photogrametry in the chamber on the other side of the sump. Nobody had been in this chamber in 40 years, so in that sense it was a bit of an adventure, but the last guy in there (in 1983, when there was a drought and the passage was dryish) showed up as we were setting up, so I was able to ask him about the size of the passage. Afterwards, I got a photo with the last guy in (40 years ahead of me) and the next guy in (my buddy 4 minutes behind me) sitting on either side of me. My buddy did most of the work while we were in there recording the room. He took about 1900 stills and a couple videos, which will take the computer about 10 to 15 days to stitch together into a 3D rendering of the chamber. My job was just to run the reel in and out and be his light monkey for the photo shoot. We also got a few shots of each of us in the room to prove we were there. I was going to leave the line in with my REM on the end inside, but we decided we should spool it back up instead. All in all we were only in there from 5:17 to 6:36, but it felt more like hours of fun.

There seems to be another sump at the far end of this chamber, but the guys from 1983 said they tried to crawl it when it was dry and it pinched down to where they could not make it through. We think now that it's submerged we may be able to no mount it, but that's a project for another day. they may be right and it may not go, but maybe it does and if so, I think our chances are better now than if it were dry, for the reasons discussed by others in this thread.

Pics or it didn't happen? I'm just kidding. Sounds awesome and I am a bit jealous. That said, if you got any pics I would love to see them.

I think a “show cave” is one that tourists go in for tours. Someone correct me if I’m wrong please.

For me a show cave is one that has paved sidewalks, handrails, installed lighting, usually a tour guide, and all to often dramatic music at key vantage points along the tour; I'm talking about you Ruby Falls

 

[lostsheep]

Just for fun because I am running my mouth about tight spots, here's another. This one isn't too tight but it's about 7' off the floor so getting into it is a PITA. Probably would be a lot easier if it was flooded.

 

[Manatee Diver]

Y'all are nuts.