What Experience Level for no-mount / Very Tight Caves?

[jtsfour]

I was wondering about this so I decided I would see what others think.

I am currently Intro-to-Cave.

What experience level do people typically start doing really tight caves. Full cave? Beyond?

Where does no-mount diving fit on the cave diving training path? It seems a lot of cave diving principles are totally different when you are basically crawling underwater.

It’s not something I am considering now but I am curious.

 

[tbone1004]

You must be at least full cave trained which is your first introduction to moderate restrictions. Nothing gear off, but where you have to travel single file and may have to wiggle a bit.
After that you typically are mentored by someone who is already doing that type of diving or there are a few instructors who teach advanced sidemount techniques like Edd Sorenson who have courses designed to prepare you to wriggle around in a cave. Unfortunately no amount of experience or training can prepare you for the sensation of being stuck and having to deal with it which is why so few even attempt those restrictions. Since you're in Alabama you may want to consider doing sidemount and then full cave with Edd which would at least get you prepared for that kind of diving.

 

[rjack321]

I was wondering about this so I decided I would see what others think.

I am currently Intro-to-Cave.

What experience level do people typically start doing really tight caves. Full cave? Beyond?

Where does no-mount diving fit on the cave diving training path? It seems a lot of cave diving principles are totally different when you are basically crawling underwater.

It’s not something I am considering now but I am curious.

There is ZERO "no-mount" training in the established agency-oriented, C-card-issuing cave diving curriculum. You have to start over with your local grotto's cavers who, if you arent a total hack, may mentor and help you with sumps and no-mount.

Quite a few sump divers have almost no "cave-diving" training at all, no mount and sumps are 99% a completely different discipline. About the only commonality is breathing underwater.

There are a few no-mount entrances which open up to traditional cave dives, those were trial and error exercises by cave divers (not cavers) to figure out a way to get their gear in so they could dive. Again, that is completely outside the C-card progression/universe, so "well beyond full cave"

 

[InWay2Deep]

Once you do your full Cave Training and end up exiting blindfolded, sharing air and navigating you might just have the answer to his question all on your own...I know I did!

 

[jtsfour]

You must be at least full cave trained which is your first introduction to moderate restrictions. Nothing gear off, but where you have to travel single file and may have to wiggle a bit.
After that you typically are mentored by someone who is already doing that type of diving or there are a few instructors who teach advanced sidemount techniques like Edd Sorenson who have courses designed to prepare you to wriggle around in a cave. Unfortunately no amount of experience or training can prepare you for the sensation of being stuck and having to deal with it which is why so few even attempt those restrictions. Since you're in Alabama you may want to consider doing sidemount and then full cave with Edd which would at least get you prepared for that kind of diving.

Thanks for the tips. That answers my questions.

I have already done sidemount and intro with Dene in Marianna.

Unfortunately I moved to Texas so I have to drive much further now

 

[Whitrzac]

I did my first no mount dive about 20 dives after getting full cave. You'll know when you're ready. If you have any question, its not for you.
The cave we 'dive' in is actually pictured in the TDI manual, lol.

Its 100% different that cave diving. No BC, no bouyancy to control, no fins, no jumps/arrows(usually) but still need to know how to get out if all hell breaks loose.
My first dive was all of 10min, 2nd one was closer to 20min. Now I'm doing EOL runs of 60min+

 

[rddvet]

The answer is once you're full cave, exceptionally proficient, and you are ready for it. Personally after 10+ years of cave diving I'm still not ready. I'm cool with tight stuff and even considered doing an advanced sm class with Protec. But then I realized the tight stuff just isn't enjoyable. I cave dive to forget about every day life and just enjoy myself and destress. Passing two bottles through a silty restriction 2k into a cave is not fun to me.
There are exceptions. There's a cave an hour or so north of me that's a saltwater cave and you have to enter via a no-mount entrance to get to the "changing room" where you put everything back on. It's not fun but it's a necessity to dive the cave. If I was 3000ft back in that same cave and needed to enter the same no mount restriction I'd turn it.
The internet cool guys make super tight stuff seem like the ultimate in cave diving and you're just a tourist diver if you don't do it. That's bs.

 

[boulderjohn]

I am full cave certified, and I know I am not ready and likely never will be.

I was on a team exploring a cave a while ago. My job was pretty easy--helping open up the entrance area for easier access. We had two forward divers doing the actual exploration, both of whom were way, way beyond me in ability. When one of them died and I heard the story of how it happened, my first thought was that he was diving beyond his considerable ability.

In the aftermath, I tried several times to write an article on diving beyond one's ability. I simply could not figure out what to say. I finally made a preliminary draft and sent it off to a very famous diver with whom I was in contact, someone who dealt with psychological factors in diving. He agreed to take a look. That was a couple years ago, and he has not yet responded. I figure he can't figure out what to say, either.

I know of several other people who have died doing this kind of a dive. I had never met any of them, but I am sure that if it were possible to talk to them, they would insist they were ready to do what they did on the fatal dive.

 

[lostsheep]

I am full cave certified but I am by no means a cave diver. I started with dry caves and I've been in some uncomfortably tight spots. There would have to be a damn good reason for me to really squeeze through something underwater with my current amount of cave diving experience.

I suggest doing some dry caves with tight squeezes to see how you feel wedged in a hole where you can't turn your head, you're going to get hung up, you might come out bleeding, and you might have to take a couple runs at it in different orientations to make it through. While you're wedged in that hole honestly ask yourself how you would feel if you were underwater.

You'll know when or if you're ready.

 

[boulderjohn]

You'll know when or if you're ready.

Maybe.