What defines technical diving - and how to get there?

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You say we need fully redundant gas supplies,, doesn't that mean enough
gas to get me to the surface safely? Why wouldn't a pony do that? Why
can I now not have a buddy? Why can I now not ascend a little, at the bottom
of this quarry is nothing to hang myself up on. Why do you restrict me this way?
Are you one of my past tech instructors? Your just yanking my chain aren't ya.
Kal

Dude, you can dive whatever the hell you want to dive. I'm not going to stop you. But the plan you laid out and the arguments you make to support fly in the face of what every technical diver should learn in terms of dive planning and execution. There is no way that you can convince me that this plan is safe or practical. You have now added a pony for redundancy for your bottom stage, in addition to the doubles full of 32% that you can't use at depth, and the useless 50% that you don't need in the first place. All this, when the NDL dive you described could easily be done on back gas and nothing else. Please explain to me why it would ever make sense to do it this way. And feel free to invite your past techincal instructors to the discussion. I'd love to hear their opinion on this.
 
How much is a little? Generally, I wouldn't consider a depth change necessitating a leaner gas mix to be "little" (nor would I consider a bottle leaner than my backgas to be a "stage").

30 ft. would get you to the MOD of the backgas. If the side bottle popped
you could easily get there. Or go on the pony,, or to your buddy. If this
is uncomfortable for you,,, then say no. Dive at your level of comfort.
I'm not stopping you or yanking your chain about it. The original point
was oh so simple,,, it is possible to require multiple bottles without
going into deco.
Kal
 
I have been following this for a while & when I 1st read your dive example I thought *** would anyone do that for.
But I stayed out of it as I think battle2a5 sounds close to my thinking.
Just because you plan a dive like that, it does not REQUIRE multiple bottles, just you decide to do it with multiple bottles.
 
As to "how you can get to technical diving," I'd just like to add a little to the very good advice of "taking it slowly" that people have already given.

Tech diving is generally not something you just show up and do with anyone who's around. By the time you're ready for that, you should already have a group of friends on the same wavelength and relative skill level - these will be your teammates, the people you practice with and train with and advance with. It's hard enough for new divers to find dive buddies, but imagine how much smaller the pool becomes when you decide to advance beyond recreational diving.

Find your regular dive buddies, dive with them a lot so you mutually know each other's skills, tendencies, etc., and make sure you're on the same wavelength with respects to goals and desire for advancement. Then you can take tech classes together, bounce ideas off each other, and act as sanity-checks for each other. It's also a lot more fun to have a cohesive team together.
 
The original point
was oh so simple,,, it is possible to require multiple bottles without
going into deco.
Kal

I'm not going to go back and re-read the thread, but...

What reason is there to switch gases if not for decompression? If you can get a stage filled with a lean enough mix to breathe at the bottom of whatever site, you can also get your backgas filled with that mix, right? If you need to stay longer than your tanks allow, then add stages accordingly (and this likely forces the decompression issue) or go closed circuit.

But why would you intentionally put a mix with a substantially deeper MOD into a "stage" instead of just getting the right gas in your large tanks?
 
Dude, you can dive whatever the hell you want to dive. I'm not going to stop you. But the plan you laid out and the arguments you make to support fly in the face of what every technical diver should learn in terms of dive planning and execution. There is no way that you can convince me that this plan is safe or practical. You have now added a pony for redundancy for your bottom stage, in addition to the doubles full of 32% that you can't use at depth, and the useless 50% that you don't need in the first place. All this, when the NDL dive you described could easily be done on back gas and nothing else. Please explain to me why it would ever make sense to do it this way. And feel free to invite your past techincal instructors to the discussion. I'd love to hear their opinion on this.

I am sure you are aware that some people have gotten bent even though
they stayed within all the computer parameters. There are some divers
that add cushion to their dive even though "they don't need it". I never
said this is the safest way. It is practical if your somewhere where you can't
get the "perfect" mixes at the time. It could be done on backgas if the backgas
was 26%. I have talked to one of my instructors and he said I'm wasting my
time here. That some divers only dive with "perfect" mix. And if you don't dive
that way "your going to die". It seems a bit restrictive to me. :Then again, in cave
training I was taught how to do a visual jump and executed it. I'm sure someday
I'll "die" doing that too.
Kal
 
I have been following this for a while & when I 1st read your dive example I thought *** would anyone do that for.
But I stayed out of it as I think battle2a5 sounds close to my thinking.
Just because you plan a dive like that, it does not REQUIRE multiple bottles, just you decide to do it with multiple bottles.

Say, your backgas has 32%. You go to the local quarry, max depth 110 ft. But, darn
it is closed. You go somewhere else, 140 ft. depth, but they have no gas for you. Well, can you still go to the bottom safely. Sure, multiple bottles. Is it ideal, nope.
Is it doable and safe, I would submit, yes. Are you uncomfortable with it,, then don't do it.
Kal
 
I am sure you are aware that some people have gotten bent even though
they stayed within all the computer parameters. There are some divers
that add cushion to their dive even though "they don't need it". I never
said this is the safest way. It is practical if your somewhere where you can't
get the "perfect" mixes at the time. It could be done on backgas if the backgas
was 26%. I have talked to one of my instructors and he said I'm wasting my
time here. That some divers only dive with "perfect" mix. And if you don't dive
that way "your going to die". It seems a bit restrictive to me. :Then again, in cave
training I was taught how to do a visual jump and executed it. I'm sure someday
I'll "die" doing that too.
Kal

So you explained the dive plan you outlined here to your tech instructor and he thinks that is a better plan than to have your bottom mix on your back? If that is the case, then you might want to talk to some other instructors. I don't always dive with the perfect mix, I don't always follow standard gases, but no matter what mantra you follow there are some very basic fundamentals to this type of diving and you are not following them. The whole purpose of the equipment and training is to add safety. If you jetison them both in the name of convenience you are negating their worth and begging for trouble. As I mentioned earlier, let's move this to the technical diving forum. Or let's frame this in the context of the agency under which you were trained and see how it holds up. You have obviously dismissed the advice that I and others have offerred, let's get some more feedback, one way or the other.
 
So you explained the dive plan you outlined here to your tech instructor and he thinks that is a better plan than to have your bottom mix on your back? If that is the case, then you might want to talk to some other instructors. I don't always dive with the perfect mix, I don't always follow standard gases, but no matter what mantra you follow there are some very basic fundamentals to this type of diving and you are not following them. The whole purpose of the equipment and training is to add safety. If you jetison them both in the name of convenience you are negating their worth and begging for trouble. As I mentioned earlier, let's move this to the technical diving forum. Or let's frame this in the context of the agency under which you were trained and see how it holds up. You have obviously dismissed the advice that I and others have offerred, let's get some more feedback, one way or the other.

I explained this to my tech instructor,,, his advice, I can save my backgas if I desire
and that is not dangerous. It is not a problem to have a side bottle with a lower MOD than my backgas. If your not comfortable breathing your side bottles you shouldn't take em. But then, he dives a modified fully closed
draeger so you may not think he is safe either.
Kal
 
I explained this to my tech instructor,,, his advice, I can save my backgas if I desire
and that is not dangerous. It is not a problem to have a side bottle with a lower MOD than my backgas. If your not comfortable breathing your side bottles you shouldn't take em. But then, he dives a modified fully closed
draeger so you may not think he is safe either.
Kal

Having "side" bottles with a lower MOD is not the real issue, it's diving beyond the MOD of your back gas with a non-redundant stage. Did you explain that part to him? And why would my advocacy of safe and very basic diving practices lead you to believe that I have a problem with CCR?
 
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