Whaling: Right or Wrong?

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KOMPRESSOR:
"without any actual evidence I might add"

I dare say that in this case many people will not accept "evidence" if they had it lying in the drive way as they pulled up at home, back from work. They'd just have it removed...

Without evidence regardling previous claims of sustainability. Overall whale biomass is drastically reduced from pre-1500 or so. 10 to 1,000 times depending on what kind of evidence you use. I don't know the imacts of that.

It would be nice to hear a little less rhetoric and a little more supporting documentation for claims of its not harming any populations, its just culling, etc. etc.

Regarding the science;
If the Japanese conduct science, who's peer reviewing it and where is it published?

Good scientists look for the most minimally invasive way to gather data, which typically isn't with a flensing knife on the deck of a trawler.
 
cdiver2:
You want to sell your goods in the US. The US wants to stop Whaling. You say no your right, the US Say's no there right. No bullying we can not tell you what to do nor can you tell us what to do.


So the biggest one will always win, right? Nice...
 
rjack321:
Without evidence regardling previous claims of sustainability. Overall whale biomass is drastically reduced from pre-1500 or so. 10 to 1,000 times depending on what kind of evidence you use. I don't know the imacts of that.

It would be nice to hear a little less rhetoric and a little more supporting documentation for claims of its not harming any populations, its just culling, etc. etc.

Regarding the science;
If the Japanese conduct science, who's peer reviewing it and where is it published?

Good scientists look for the most minimally invasive way to gather data, which typically isn't with a flensing knife on the deck of a trawler.


What I'm saying is that no matter how much proof is presented to some people, they would still deny it be right. I'm not a scientist. I'm not in the position to give you such evidence, neither should you expect me to do so. But what I know is that our whaling industry started up again because the politicians (ours) could no longer deny that the population of mink whales was more than large enough to sustain hunting. I've heard we have 110.000 minks in our near waters. That's a lot of whales man!
 
drbill:
I think you misinterpreted the intent of my post. I have never said people shouldn't speak out against what they feel are environmental "wrongs." I've simply said, as you have, that when speaking out we must also consider that we are ALL part of the problem.

Back in the 60's and 70's when I started teaching both ecology and environmental issues in high school, a number of my students would say that they disliked business for the damage it caused to the environment. I would point out that they (like me) wore hiking boots, carried backpacks, toted cameras, etc., that were made by various manufacturing industries.

My comments were directed at the self-righteousness of those who decry the acts of others without recognizing the wrongs they themselves (or their societies) commit.

As for myself, I only buy things that I need for my business and personal activities. I do not own a car here on the island (due to a conscious choice made decades ago to live in a community where I could actually do this), but do have one on the mainland (a beat up 1987 Toyota Tercel which does get great mileage). My stereo equipment is decades old and still more than sufficient for my listening needs (after all, I'm a long-term diver so my hearing is almost gone anyway).

We all make personal choices as to what we are willing to do to lessen our impact on the environment. Of course none of us can completely eliminate impacts since by nature we do prefer to be fed, clothed and housed! I just try to live by a 60's-70's philosophy of "voluntary simplicity" to the extent possible.

I hope no one else will interpret any of my comments as suggesting people should not speak out. Just do so with a full recognition of the big picture.

But I find quiet often that some people do not realize there impact on the earth. So a discussion ( I hope) like this can only do good as ALL aspects of what WE are doing wrong can come out. Like you I try to do my little bit, I do not eat any sea food or wild animal if it comes to that. Yes I have been to the slaughterhouse, a few times.

One of the things that amaze me in this is the excuse "what about the fishing/whaling industry, all those people out of work. TOUGH Welcome to the world. I have worked for two company's that have closed down and moved, I did not see anyone protesting about me losing my job.
 
KOMPRESSOR:
Did I hear anyone whisper Tokyo? Climate?? Energy consumption??? So there really isn't a global warming, is there? Or doesn't the US government really give a toss? What is it?

What is to care in this case? WHY should the Japanese change their vues into yours?


I am not sure what you're saying? The environment is everyone's problem. Whales are a small part of a larger, somewhat sad picture. What is particularly disturbing about the Japanese fishing industry and the IWC (International Whaling Commission) is their duplicity.
 
KOMPRESSOR:
So the biggest one will always win, right? Nice...

If it was the other way round what could the US do about it.

Look at history Japan has slapped a Hugh tax on imported cars. Why to price them out of competition with there own. The US/UK did not invade them for it :D
 
I tried whale while I lived in Japan. I can't say it was bad, but I didn't find it delicious. It does seem duplicitous that while Japan takes the moral high ground on many environmental issues, their whaling and fishing industry practices are defended, or at least non-topics for debate.

...Maybe Disney should make a movie about it. They love Disney over there.
 
JustAddWater:
...Maybe Disney should make a movie about it. They love Disney over there.

Well, a lot of people think US Americans have a "Disney" approach to most things. Especially towards animals and wildlife. -And whales...
 
cdiver2:
If it was the other way round what could the US do about it.

Look at history Japan has slapped a Hugh tax on imported cars. Why to price them out of competition with there own. The US/UK did not invade them for it :D

Yes, what COULD the US do about it? Dah...

I do not believe this Japanese import tax was a measure of punishing you guys for anything. I suppose they just wanted to protect their trade. -And perhaps that's really what it's all about, since we make the best salmon in the world at a bargain price...
 
Unfortunately that is correct. Most of those Disney-philes are under 12, or just stuck at 12. The difference is the latter group votes.
I am not opposed to fishing industry. Myself, I hunt, fish, and spearfish. I do believe it is in our best interest to responsibly manage harvested species.

Kompressor- I notice you are from Norway. Keeping with my Norwegian heritage, my family made lefse the other day and brought it to my wife's family Christmas party- who are all Swedes. It went well with the herring and sardines.
Skal and Merry Christmas
JAW
 

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