Wetsuit Stitching, How Much Does it Matter?

[divinh]

I found this page to give a pretty good explanation of stitching methods:

http://www.surfing-waves.com/equipment/wetsuit-stitching.htm

And this video to be a nice complement:


My first questions are: Given two 5mm wetsuits, one with flatlock and one with glued/blindstitch/inner tape, would one feel that much difference between the two wetsuits? Yes, flatlock will let in more water, but how much more and would it make a difference?

I've only rented 3mm wetsuits (full and shorty) before and have never spent any time making observations over stitching. Now that I'm making an investment in one, I'd like to make sure it'll serve its purpose. Would a 4/3mm glued/blindstitch/inner tape wetsuit perform like a 5mm flatlock, since less water is let in? Would the stitching method provide an extra mm of warm?

 

[MAKO Spearguns]

I'm not sure if flat lock stitching is common on 5 mm suits? It allows water to seep in and if you are wearing a 5 mm suit, you are probably in water cold enough that you really don't want unnecessary leakage.

For example, our freedive type suits have blind stictched seams that are completely water proof. When you combine this with an attached hood, smooth rubber interior which precludes (almost completely) water from entering the suit and inhibits the transport of any water that does find its way inside and you eliminate any zippers that will leak and you eliminate a joint at the neck area (with the attached hood) you end up with a suit that is very warm.

 

[stuartv]

I would buy a good 3mm with GBS before I bought a 5mm with flatlock.

 

[divinh]

I'm not sure if flat lock stitching is common on 5 mm suits? It allows water to seep in and if you are wearing a 5 mm suit, you are probably in water cold enough that you really don't want unnecessary leakage.

For example, our freedive type suits have blind stictched seams that are completely water proof. When you combine this with an attached hood, smooth rubber interior which precludes (almost completely) water from entering the suit and inhibits the transport of any water that does find its way inside and you eliminate any zippers that will leak and you eliminate a joint at the neck area (with the attached hood) you end up with a suit that is very warm.

Hmm... you're right. I haven't actually found 5mm wetsuits with flatlock stitching. I was curious about what difference in "perceivable" warmth stitching makes. What about 3mm flatlock vs glued-blind?

 

[divinh]

I would buy a good 3mm with GBS before I bought a 5mm with flatlock.

I get that GBS is better, but would a 3mm GBS be as good as/better than a 5mm flatlock? How about a 3mm GBS in 70F/22 C, because I'm considering a 5mm for that situation. (I'm happy in shorts/rash guard in 27+ C, even with multiple dives for the day.)

 

[stuartv]

There is more to it than just GBS versus FL. I don't know of any 2 suits that are identical in every other way, that you could compare just 3mm/GBS to 5mm/FL.

There's fit, wrist seals, ankle seals, neck seal, and zipper seal, as well.

I agree with Dano that even though FL is common on 3mm and thinner, it does not seem all that common on a 5mm. Similarly, it seems like seals at all the openings is more common on 5mm and less common on 3mm. I guess the manufacturers figure people that are shopping for a 5mm are more concerned about warmth and people looking at a 3mm are planning to dive in warm-ish water and not as concerned about warmth. ??

However, there ARE 3mm suits out there that are GBS and have good seals all the way around. Something I have wondered about for years now is suits that are GBS and where the manufacturer put, for example, wrist seals and a neck seal, but didn't put ankle seals or a seal behind the zipper. Seems like a waste.

What I can say for sure is that I have a ScubaPro EverFlex 3/2 (an older model). It is GBS and has smoothskin seals at the ankles, wrists, inside of the neck, and a pad to seal behind the main zipper. I have dived it with 5mm booties and no hood or gloves quite comfortably in water down to 72F. But, it fits me really well and I may be more cold tolerant than other people.

AND, even though I have dived the 3/2 comfortably, I am now more likely to use my 5/4 for those temps. The 3/2 is comfy. The 5/4 is MORE comfy. It's the difference between getting to the end of a dive and feeling just a little cool versus still feeling warm. A little cool at the end is fine. If I only have room in my luggage to take the 3/2, then that's fine. But, nowadays, if I have the room, I will opt for being warm at the end over comfortable but a little cool.

So, these days I am kind of feeling like I could be just fine only owning my 5/4 suit and a drysuit. And maybe a really thin skin for diving in warm water where I want complete coverage against stings.

If you are really debating between a 3mm and a 5mm, and you really can't decide, I would say to go with the warmer suit and then buy a thinner suit later, if you find yourself in situations where the 5mm is just plain TOO warm.

Also, remember that however warm any suit is when it's new is going to change. When you get some dives on it, it will crush down some and be thinner. Then it will no longer be as warm. If a 3mm is "just right" when it's new, then it will eventually be not warm enough any more. A 5mm that is a little too warm at first should eventually settle in to being just right.

Or (and I am laughing at myself right now), the flip side is that any suit will seem warmer if you add a hood and gloves. So, if a 3mm suit is just right, then when it loses a bit of warmth, or if you dive somewhere colder, adding a 3mm hood and some thin gloves will keep you a lot warmer feeling.

Good luck!!

 

[divinh]

There is more to it than just GBS versus FL. I don't know of any 2 suits that are identical in every other way, that you could compare just 3mm/GBS to 5mm/FL.

There's fit, wrist seals, ankle seals, neck seal, and zipper seal, as well.

I agree with Dano that even though FL is common on 3mm and thinner, it does not seem all that common on a 5mm. Similarly, it seems like seals at all the openings is more common on 5mm and less common on 3mm. I guess the manufacturers figure people that are shopping for a 5mm are more concerned about warmth and people looking at a 3mm are planning to dive in warm-ish water and not as concerned about warmth. ??

However, there ARE 3mm suits out there that are GBS and have good seals all the way around. Something I have wondered about for years now is suits that are GBS and where the manufacturer put, for example, wrist seals and a neck seal, but didn't put ankle seals or a seal behind the zipper. Seems like a waste.

What I can say for sure is that I have a ScubaPro EverFlex 3/2 (an older model). It is GBS and has smoothskin seals at the ankles, wrists, inside of the neck, and a pad to seal behind the main zipper. I have dived it with 5mm booties and no hood or gloves quite comfortably in water down to 72F. But, it fits me really well and I may be more cold tolerant than other people.

AND, even though I have dived the 3/2 comfortably, I am now more likely to use my 5/4 for those temps. The 3/2 is comfy. The 5/4 is MORE comfy. It's the difference between getting to the end of a dive and feeling just a little cool versus still feeling warm. A little cool at the end is fine. If I only have room in my luggage to take the 3/2, then that's fine. But, nowadays, if I have the room, I will opt for being warm at the end over comfortable but a little cool.

So, these days I am kind of feeling like I could be just fine only owning my 5/4 suit and a drysuit. And maybe a really thin skin for diving in warm water where I want complete coverage against stings.

If you are really debating between a 3mm and a 5mm, and you really can't decide, I would say to go with the warmer suit and then buy a thinner suit later, if you find yourself in situations where the 5mm is just plain TOO warm.

Also, remember that however warm any suit is when it's new is going to change. When you get some dives on it, it will crush down some and be thinner. Then it will no longer be as warm. If a 3mm is "just right" when it's new, then it will eventually be not warm enough any more. A 5mm that is a little too warm at first should eventually settle in to being just right.

Or (and I am laughing at myself right now), the flip side is that any suit will seem warmer if you add a hood and gloves. So, if a 3mm suit is just right, then when it loses a bit of warmth, or if you dive somewhere colder, adding a 3mm hood and some thin gloves will keep you a lot warmer feeling.

Good luck!!

Thank you! This is the kind of info I was looking for.