Wesley Skiles' widow suing over rebreather

[flots am]

It has been shown that the deaths have been do to operator error or medical issues and not a defect or failure in the rebreather same as in open circuit diving deaths.

"Operator error" should be engineered out of the process.

Your "Rebreathers are fundamentally dangerous" line has no basis to compare to. If thats the case, then so is Open Circuit Scuba Diving, Freediving, Driving a Car, Walking on a sidewalk next to a road. Without a basis of comparison, the statement has no meaning.

Failures on OC are inherently obvious (the diver stops breathing). The diver then knows that it's time to share air or "go up".

Failures on a rebreather are not always obvious.

For someone who is properly trained and does not become complacent, rebreathers are not fundamentally dangerous.

Rob Davie (a deceased rebreather diver, instructor and commercial jet pilot), and the guy who died in the pool, and probably Wes, would all disagree with you.

If we follow your logic, we should ban all diving activities as it is fundamentally dangerous.

I'm not looking for a ban, I'm looking for better rebreathers.

flots.

 

[TSandM]

This argument goes on periodically in a variety of places.

If a system is sufficiently complicated that the likelihood of user error is too high, is the system at fault for the user error? Poor engineering results in complicated systems that are hard to make error-free, simply because a certain level of error is almost certain when you mix human beings into the pot. On the other hand, making things "bombproof" can also ruin the performance of the system, or make it so cumbersome that it's totally inefficient. The Poseidon rebreather is an example of somebody trying to think about oxygen measurement underwater another way; whether it's a better way or not will have to be shown over time.

I'm with flots. We need better rebreathers, because we aren't going to breed better people

 

[Dsix36]

"Operator error" should be engineered out of the process.

Are you nuts? Put complete trust and faith in something mechanical and electronic underwater. I prefer to use my own brain power to control the outcome.

Failures on OC are inherently obvious (the diver stops breathing). The diver then knows that it's time to share air or "go up".

Failures on a rebreather are not always obvious.

OC failures are not always just being unable to breathe. What happens if you are breathing the wrong gas for the depth you are at? Oh yeah, if it is too lean you just go to sleep and drown and if it is too rich you have a chance to experience an oxygen toxicity seizure, pass out and drown.

Rob Davie (a deceased rebreather diver, instructor and commercial jet pilot), and the guy who died in the pool, and probably Wes, would all disagree with you.

I think they would indeed agree. All rebreather divers know and understand this "Complacency Kills"

I'm not looking for a ban, I'm looking for better rebreathers.

flots.

While I do agree that there is room for improvement, i also think that we have 2 distinct choices when it comes to rebreathers.
1 - Accept them for what they are and make sure to mitigate the risks with training and attention to details
2 - Stay the hell away from them.

 

[flots am]

This is all fascinating, but there are a divers who were at the absolute pinnacle of training and proficiency and still died. You can't expect more training or less "complacency" from anybody else.

If these guys died, there is something fundamentally wrong with the technology.

flots.

 

[Cave Diver]

This is all fascinating, but there are a divers who were at the absolute pinnacle of training and proficiency and still died. You can't expect more training or less "complacency" from anybody else.

If these guys died, there is something fundamentally with the technology.

flots.

Just to play devils advocate, it's also possible that by being at the pinnacle of training and proficiency might have led to complacency. That sword can cut both ways...

 

[DandyDon]

Just to play devils advocate, it's also possible that by being at the pinnacle of training and proficiency might have led to complacency. That sword can cut both ways...

I was following a thread on a well known & well liked SB member's RB fatality a few years ago, for a week or so, and it was finally established that he screwed up. Then the thread vanished forever. I don't know what his preferences would have been, but the learning opportunity was lost...

 

[Reck Diver]

I was following a thread on a well known & well liked SB member's RB fatality a few years ago, for a week or so, and it was finally established that he screwed up. Then the thread vanished forever. I don't know what his preferences would have been, but the learning opportunity was lost...

When I see an interesting thread that I suspect will be poofed, I either print a hard copy, or just copy it to a word file so I can reference it with accuracy in the future.

 

[DandyDon]

When I see an interesting thread that I suspect will be poofed, I either print a hard copy, or just copy it to a word file so I can reference it with accuracy in the future.

Who knew...?

When I go, I hope y'all critique my diving and lifestyle well, preventing some others to make my mistakes - however I do myself in...!

 

[Scott]

Snagged from elsewhere. http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/07/24/Skiles.pdf

 

[Packhorse]

This is all fascinating, but there are a divers who were at the absolute pinnacle of training and proficiency and still died. You can't expect more training or less "complacency" from anybody else.

Exact same thing can be said about people who have drived cars for 30 years and never had an accident.... next minute.

If these guys died, there is something fundamentally wrong with the technology.

flots.

You could say the same thing about cars. Do you drive a car?

I think your are totally wrong on both counts and I think Dsix summed it up perfectly in his above post.