Wesley Skiles' widow suing over rebreather

[annasea]

Actually, I just checked. He holds a cert on the Meg and the MK-5. He was not certed on the Optima. I apologize for the bad information that I took second hand.

Anyone know why he chose to dive a rebreather that he wasn't certed on? Why didn't he stick to his Meg for this particular dive?

 

[Superlyte27]

I'm told he grabbed his employee's rebreather.

 

[Thalassamania]

I'd hammer the point that he wasn't certed on any rebreather. He wasn't certed on the Optima, he wasn't wearing bailout. He hadn't done his own pre-flight check on the optima. He went against just about everything we're trained in CCR class to do.

---------- Post Merged at 11:18 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 11:12 PM ----------



I agree with this point, but Wes was not "well trained and well qualified" on any rebreather, let alone the Optima. Also, you can build the perfect machine, but if you don't run the checklists, you might still perish.

A few thoughts: "certified," "trained" and "knowing what you are doing" are three different things and are not mutually inclusive or exclusive. It is quite possible to be "trained" through any number of routes, know full well what you are doing and yet never be "certified," a word that has become an industry term of art without meaning or substance.

I apparently missed that. He wasn't a trained rebreather diver?

In that case his widow won't (or shouldn't) be getting anything. That's just dumb.

flots.

Actually, while I do not know, I rather doubt that Wes was a "trained rebreather diver" in the sense that I suspect you are using the word ... but then neither am I, neither are a lot of folks I know, including every single person who attended the first aquacorps rebreather meeting down in Key West,

I agree with the premise that rebreathers are inherently dangerous. The idea that you or your system makes one tiny mistake equals death by putting you to sleep is just too dangerous for my likes. Sure, you can die on OC, but if you watch your gas consumption and stay within rec limits you are fairly safe. I understand that almost all activities have an element of danger. However, one mistake from a rebreather can put you to sleep eternally. The real answer isn't banning rebreathers, but we need more innovation and more safety systems to ensure deaths don't happen due to simple errors by machines or humans.

As for the lawsuit, I say full speed ahead. If Dive Rite did nothing wrong then that will come out. However, if they suppressed information on a faulty design to keep making money then they deserve to be hammered. I know the general public hates lawsuits, but many times they are needed to punish offenders and they often result in sweeping safety changes industry wide that are beneficial to all.

I agree, the problem is that seeing a case through to final public vindication often would require more money than just settling the case with a nondisclosure agreement in place and without any admission of guilt. It is the insurance companies that are making that decision, since they are on the hook for the cash. In my experience they could care less about personal reputations or future safety, they just want to limit their expenditures for the given incident.

 

[Superlyte27]

I spent the last two weeks with several divers who knew Wes very well. "

A few thoughts: "certified," "trained" and "knowing what you are doing" "


​

​

​None of these applied to Wes and CCR diving.​

 

[Cave Diver]

The real answer isn't banning rebreathers, but we need more innovation and more safety systems to ensure deaths don't happen due to simple errors by machines or humans.

Why?

I know the risks and I accept them. Odds are extremely high that any failure of the unit leading to my death will have been caused by something I did (or failed to do). Not packing the scrubber correctly. Not checking 02 sensors. Not doing a pos/neg check to insure the integrity of the system. Not paying attention to my displays. Not using the correct setpoint or following the correct procedures. The list goes on and on...

This sounds an awful lot to me like the push by some people for cars that drive themselves. Built in collision avoidance systems. Traction control. ABS brakes. Automatic parking features. Basically taking the driving portion out of driving. Personally, I've always enjoyed the feedback from an automobile. How hard I can accelerate without losing traction. How hard I can brake before the wheels lock up and skid. How fast I can take a turn before the tires break loose.

Maybe my penchant for being "hands on" is why I prefer to dive my CCR manually, rather than letting the electronics run it. I for one, would certainly not be interested in more safety systems. I take responsibility for my own mistakes, and by virtue, my own life.

 

[Superlyte27]

bah! Now I have to agree with Cave Diver. Who started this thread. I blame you for creating a scenario where I have to agree with something CD says.

 

[JamesK]

Lol! I can't say for rebreathers, I would love to try, but the car analogy is spot on!

 

[robbcayman]

Why?

I know the risks and I accept them. Odds are extremely high that any failure of the unit leading to my death will have been caused by something I did (or failed to do). Not packing the scrubber correctly. Not checking 02 sensors. Not doing a pos/neg check to insure the integrity of the system. Not paying attention to my displays. Not using the correct setpoint or following the correct procedures. The list goes on and on...

This sounds an awful lot to me like the push by some people for cars that drive themselves. Built in collision avoidance systems. Traction control. ABS brakes. Automatic parking features. Basically taking the driving portion out of driving. Personally, I've always enjoyed the feedback from an automobile. How hard I can accelerate without losing traction. How hard I can brake before the wheels lock up and skid. How fast I can take a turn before the tires break loose.

Maybe my penchant for being "hands on" is why I prefer to dive my CCR manually, rather than letting the electronics run it. I for one, would certainly not be interested in more safety systems. I take responsibility for my own mistakes, and by virtue, my own life.

The ultimate goal as a diver is to resurface unscathed. If we can add safety innovations that lower the risks of accidents then I'm all for it. I'm all for you speaking for yourself regarding not taking any more safety innovations... that's your choice. Heck, I have friends who refuse to wear seatbelts, they believe when it's their time it's their time. I think that's utter nonsense, but that's their choice to make. I believe in making our sport as safe as possible and to make every attempt to ensure more and more divers come back home.

 

[Thalassamania]

I spent the last two weeks with several divers who knew Wes very well. "

A few thoughts: "certified," "trained" and "knowing what you are doing" "


​

​None of these applied to Wes and CCR diving.​

Hm ... I hope you don't, once again, find yourself having to retract misinformation that you have spread. I rather hope that after I die there are as many people out there who, "knew me very well," as Wes has developed since his passing.

 

[Cave Diver]

I believe in making our sport as safe as possible and to make every attempt to ensure more and more divers come back home.

Many deaths on SCUBA in general and rebreathers in particular have to do with failing to follow established training or protocols.

Speculation: from the initial reports on the death of Wes, it sounds as if he may have failed to follow standard methods. If someone refuses to use the things that are already implemented for safety, what is going to compel them to use MORE safety features?