Wesley Skiles' widow suing over rebreather

[wedivebc]

I just vetoed any pending thought of going CCR after reading this post. :shocked2:

Glad I could help

 

[MarineResearch]

I was in Florida when this happened and the general discussion was that people were seriously rethinking what PPO2 setting they should use. As I recall, the discussion was that Wes Skiles set the rebreather at a constant PPO2 of 1.4 atm, and people were thinking that 1.2 atm might be a little safer. However, the PPO2 setting may not have had anything to do with his death.

I also feel bad for Lamar Hires. We were tagging along with our cave instructor and Lamar took the time to give us the grand tour of the Dive Rite operation and things that they were working on. We even spent a bit of time looking at some of the design features of the O2ptima FX Rebreather. Lamar seemed like an incredibly nice and conscientious guy.

I'm still going to take a rebreather certification course next month. I've done a fault tree analysis of the rebreather and am comfortable with the failure probability, which is a lot lower than the probability of human error. I can think of a lot worse ways to die and I'm insured.

 

[jeffgerritsen]

I currently dive a DR Optima FX RB and I'm aware of the weakest link in any RB - O2 cells. Regarding the lawsuit, I'll wait and see. The only concern I have is DR examining the equipment before a chain of custody can be established - a big NO NO if I do say so myself. Other than the chain of custody issue, I don't have a comment on the pending lawsuit.

All of us RB divers live with these "inherent" safety issues of our "current state of the art in O2 cell technology". Until another O2 cell technology is developed, we live with what we got - good, bad, or indifferent!

As an aside, besides constant monitoring of PO2 readouts on the handsets, I listen for the O2 solenoid firing. I have developed a "sixth sense" indicating about the time the O2 solenoid should fire based upon activity. No solenoid firing, a quick look at PO2 readouts on both Rev D and Rev C handsets either calms me down or I switch to bail out Immediately.

In any case, Wes's death was a tragic loss.

 

[Griffo]

I currently dive a DR Optima FX RB and I'm aware of the weakest link in any RB - O2 cells. Regarding the lawsuit, I'll wait and see. The only concern I have is DR examining the equipment before a chain of custody can be established - a big NO NO if I do say so myself. Other than the chain of custody issue, I don't have a comment on the pending lawsuit.
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I know nothing about this case, but isn't it the job of police to maintain the chain of custody?

 

[BoneCrusher]

Glad I could help

I'm curious how you think you "helped". I see it more as adding to the unfounded "scare" of technology and rebreathers. Rebreather technology is not difficult to understand. Understanding, monitoring, and maintaining O2 cells is not difficult to understand. Unfortunately people become complacent and don't do the diligence to maintain awareness. That is the primary root cause with most diving accidents. Scaring people away from something instead of teaching understanding and awareness is not part of "helping" in my book.

 

[flots am]

I'm curious how you think you "helped". I see it more as adding to the unfounded "scare" of technology and rebreathers. Rebreather technology is not difficult to understand. Understanding, monitoring, and maintaining O2 cells is not difficult to understand. Unfortunately people become complacent and don't do the diligence to maintain awareness. That is the primary root cause with most diving accidents. Scaring people away from something instead of teaching understanding and awareness is not part of "helping" in my book.

Rebreathers are fundamentally dangerous. There is no other SCUBA technology I'm aware of where a failure or mistake can put the user to sleep, then kill them.

In fact, a little Googling will point out that many rebreather deaths are in very experienced divers and even rebreather instructors. Rebreather Accidents / Incidents - Rebreather World

flots.

 

[TSandM]

I guess the fundamental question here might boil down to this: If both the manufacturer and the user know that there is a specific and possible failure mode on a device, and that failure might kill the user, who is responsible for the death of a user who is killed by that known failure mode? (Of course, a lot of things would have to be shown before you even GOT to that question . . . like whether or not the person was actually killed by that failure mode, or by something else altogether.)

 

[formula1mb@aol.com]

Yeah there is, a lot of people have died breathing lean bottom mixes on/near the surface on OC during technical dives. It's an easy mistake to avoid but also one that's very easy to make. Same for breathing rich deco gases by accident at the bottom.

There is no other SCUBA technology I'm aware of where a failure or mistake can put the user to sleep, then kill them.

flots.

 

[BoneCrusher]

Rebreathers are fundamentally dangerous. There is no other SCUBA technology I'm aware of where a failure or mistake can put the user to sleep, then kill them.

In fact, a little Googling will point out that many rebreather deaths are in very experienced divers and even rebreather instructors. Rebreather Accidents / Incidents - Rebreather World

flots.

It has been shown that the deaths have been do to operator error or medical issues and not a defect or failure in the rebreather same as in open circuit diving deaths. Your "Rebreathers are fundamentally dangerous" line has no basis to compare to. If thats the case, then so is Open Circuit Scuba Diving, Freediving, Driving a Car, Walking on a sidewalk next to a road. Without a basis of comparison, the statement has no meaning. For someone who is properly trained and does not become complacent, rebreathers are not fundamentally dangerous. I can also use that same line with Open Circuit Scuba diving. For someone who is properly trained and does not become complacent, Open Circuit Scuba diving is not fundamentally dangerous. If we follow your logic, we should ban all diving activities as it is fundamentally dangerous.

 

[wedivebc]

I'm curious how you think you "helped". I see it more as adding to the unfounded "scare" of technology and rebreathers. Rebreather technology is not difficult to understand. Understanding, monitoring, and maintaining O2 cells is not difficult to understand. Unfortunately people become complacent and don't do the diligence to maintain awareness. That is the primary root cause with most diving accidents. Scaring people away from something instead of teaching understanding and awareness is not part of "helping" in my book.

Rebreather diving has it's own set if dangers. When I teach CCR which is pretty much all my dive training these days I ensure my students are fully prepared to accept the risks of this activity.
Rebreather diving is not for everyone and if my post helped one person decide it was not for them then I can live with that.