Weights on Belts V. in BCD

[-hh]

0-3kg when diving wet (3 or 7mm), as 2-3 pcs on a belt; 8kg (as 2-4 pcs), again on a belt, when diving dry.

For warmwater, I'm wearing 2x2lbs (4lbs) in the BC's upper trim pockets + 2x3lbs (6lbs) on a weightbelt, positioned to have the weights in the small of my back. Its been a few years since I've done any coldwater, but I still have a 28lb weightbelt made up for my 7mm farmer john. With my new BC, I'd probably strop 4lbs off of it to put in its trim pockets.

i don't like the integrated weights since three years ago I saw them falling out of the pockets of a BCD.

The earlier BCs' weight integration systems were pretty weak. They're better today, although there still are "lost pockets" - - typically, these are for when divers are returning to a boat and want to hand up weights before exiting...its a slip-up not unlike dropping a weightbelt.

I know the belt may also fail, but I put it under the crotch strap of the BPW, and the free end is rotated over the buckle to stop it from opening in most circumstances.

My crusty old dive instructor preached us constantly on never trapping the weightbelt under anything (and specifically including crotch straps, since back then, we were in horsecollars): Ray's motto was "A new weightbelt is cheaper than a casket". Nevertheless, we did learn that there's often been some interesting approaches for the concerns of accidental weightbelt release. Duct-taping the buckle assembly closed before a dive was one example; using double weightbelt buckles was another. However, in the years since, the most common "weightbelt problem" that I've seen can be tracked back to the use of cheap plastic buckles instead of a good metal buckle...and this problem gets worse when you look at the extremely poor & worn out condition that said plastic buckles often are at a dive resort. Personally, I always carry my own weightbelt webbing & buckle with me whenever I travel, and NEVER use any of the resort "loaners".

...There is nothing wrong with tightening the belt at depth. In fact, it is a good idea...

Agreed, although some technique in cinching it prior to getting in the water also helps...a "bend over" at the waist, to let gravity help.

2. One (of many) reason(s) that I use, and prefer, a steel backplate is that it moves weight 'up' toward my shoulders, Many / most jacket and back-inflate BCDs are postively buoyant. Placing weight on the diver's waist (or toward the lower part of the BCD) to compensate for the buoyancy characteristics of the BCD, creates a mal-distribution of lift and weight. A steel backplate helps to offset this, and is a useful consideration for divers that need added weight, based on their exposure suit, body compositioon, and diving environment (salt water, cold water, etc.).

A fair observation. Many commercial BCs now include 'trim pockets' to help out with this aspect of trim, in addition to adjusting the tank's location relative to the BC. Of course, one of the old school tricks (which you go on to mention) is to secure an ankle weight around your tank valve.

3. The scuba equipment world appears to be moving inexorably to a predominantly weight-integrated BCD existence. I was discussing this with our shop owner yesterday, and had not until then fully appreciated how significant the shift has become, in terms of what kinds of BCDs are available in various manufacturer lines. And, although you don't have to use weight integration with a weight-integrated BCD, the design and 'cut' (longer in the torso) of some weight-integrated BCDs makes use of a weight belt difficult. The good news is that the sophistication of weight placement in integrated systems is improving, and some of the problems you experienced (e.g. feeling of being pulled forward) are being addressed by the distribution of weight placement in some newer systems. Simply putting all of the weight in pockets toward the lower front of the BCD has not been a good idea, and more manufactureres are adding trim pockets for weight placement to address this. Not all of that weight is necessarily ditchable, though.

Unfortunately, this is the current design trend ... and it appears that the manufacturers are also using trim pockets as an "upscale" feature. Good luck in finding a BC that has the small trim pockets on the back, but without the big WI pockets up front.

^^ Point of clarification, I stated belts don't fall of due to compression. I.E. the properly buckled belt loosens a bit as you descend and can become a PITA, but does not drop off.

I think what you are describing is more in line with an improperly fastened belt.

Personallyy I'd place 90% of the blame on those cheap plastic buckles. Simply put, the buckle's engagement teeth wear out, a failure mode that isn't obvious, particularly since the belt will often still hold when it is still dry.


-hh

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

It's true that weight pockets have load limits--maybe yours were surpassed? I have been diving for years and years in a professional capacity with integrated weights and have never lost a single pouch, and I've never seen a lost one on the bottom either (though I know there are some). For example, one of my divers once lost one, but it was when she was boarding the dinghy and tried to hand a pouch up to the boat boy but lost her grip on it, not because it fell out of her BC. I find all sorts of stuff people drop--reels, dive lights, knives, but never a weight pouch. And yet I've found hundreds of pounds of weights on the bottom from belts. Maybe your BCDs are poorly designed; there are also poorly crafted weight belt buckles that fail through no fault of the user. I still maintain, however, that unintended loss of the weight system is overwhelmingly due to user error. I see it all the time.

I did not overload the pouches, although I was close to the limit of 13lbs / side.

Maybe the BCD design I was using was flawed, I certainly have not had and problems with my Zeagle Ranger with IW pouches or DUI harnesses which work like one. However, remember my response was to another poser who said "Aww c'mon, virtually all the integrated systems are pretty darn reliable IF YOU PROPERLY SNAP, SCREW OR VELCRO THEM IN PLACE. Belts can fall off at least as easily due to the compression issues mentioned above."

I am merely point out they are not ALL reliable. It not so cut and dried to say if you snap in in place its good to go. The IW pouches have a mechanism in place that is more complex than a belt. More things can go wrong with the increased complexity. The ease of use might be worthwhile, but I have a real hard time accepting it just a reliable as a belt.

 

[farsidefan1]

I did not overload the pouches, although I was close to the limit of 13lbs / side.

Maybe the BCD design I was using was flawed, I certainly have not had and problems with my Zeagle Ranger with IW pouches or DUI harnesses which work like one. However, remember my response was to another poser who said "Aww c'mon, virtually all the integrated systems are pretty darn reliable IF YOU PROPERLY SNAP, SCREW OR VELCRO THEM IN PLACE. Belts can fall off at least as easily due to the compression issues mentioned above."

I am merely point out they are not ALL reliable. It not so cut and dried to say if you snap in in place its good to go. The IW pouches have a mechanism in place that is more complex than a belt. More things can go wrong with the increased complexity. The ease of use might be worthwhile, but I have a real hard time accepting it just a reliable as a belt.

You know what? I'll give you the "not ALL reliable" since you obviously had issues with one. Other than my certification dives I have never used a weight belt although the type described by dumpster diver sounds usable. I have used scubapro glide plus (jacket style integrated, aqualung balanced, which could lose pockets if the pockets were not inserted till a distinct click is heard, Knowing this I NEVER had an issue losing a pouch) and now I dive with the zeagle stiletto which is very secure as you pointed out. The term "vitually all" allows for the random exception. As to your not being convinced about the complexity issues - clearly I diagree although I certainly respect your opinion. My experiences are obviously different from yours. I usually agree with most of your posts. Just not this one:cool2:. Still my point remains - we are discussing difference of opinions here. Excellent divers use both systems. Niether one is wrong - or inherantly more dangerous. Use whatever works and is most comfortable to you.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Scuba Board with be very boring if everyone agreed. Its much easier to learn by discussing different opinions and the logic that drives them than learning on the job.

 

[TrevorReid]

As I am sure it has already been discussed...I think the BC and its system for ditching weight plays a large role in weather or not to integrate your weight system. When I bought my gear, my decision to integrate my weights was largely based on the purchase of a Zeagle Ranger. Zeagle started as a parachutes company in 1979 and then progressed into some of the best BC's you can get today. As a result, there system for ditching weight resembles that of a parachute ripcord system....and it works well! I have 20lbs of weight in 1,2 and 3 shot bags and drop those into the Zeagle weight pockets for added security.
I also considered a Dive Rite transpac harness, and if that was the rout I went, I was going to put all my led on a weight belt. I didn't like the way there detachable weight system worked.

 

[Rogersea]

I use both. I primarily use weight belts though because the majority of my instruction is with belts. I have been using belts for a very long time and find them easy and comfortable to use, probablly because I only use 6 to 8 pounds.

When I use my weight integrated BCD I sometimes find it a little heavy to lug around... out of the water. In the water it is just as comfortable as my weight belt.

Cheers,
Roger

 

[mictrik]

7 mil wetsuit farmer john: 20 in BC. 4 in shoulder pouches. 17 in (pouch) belt. 41 total with AL 80 tank. For 71.2 steel tank take 6 out of the belt. Suspenders on belt, so you release the 20 in the BC. If diving with shotrie or less--only weights are in the BC as my legs are very negatively buoyant--shortie 18 lbs., body suit 12 lbs. (AL80).

Wow, that's a allot of weight...

 

[Teamcasa]

I like using a weight belt. I find that weight pockets widen my already to wide hips. Plus, the belt is easier to manage and harder to lose than weight pockets.

 

[00wabbit]

Newbie here:

Using a weight integrated bc (Scubapro Nighthawk) I don't worry about dropping weights with this. It has very robust buckles, but I can still operate them with one hand.

Ettiquette question: I dive with a lot of weight. I'm a floater. When getting on a boat should I pull the weight pockets and hand them to the boat hands before getting out, or just waddle up the ladder with the full load on board?

 

[Gudu]

During my certification Dives (last weekend) and in rental gear I almost slipped out and lost my Weight Belt, what a sh&^%*& feeling. Now I got my own used BCD with integrated weight pockets which should work very well (simmilar to a Parashute release system) but I think I will use a Belt in addition and perhabs hocked up to the quick dumping release mechanism.